The Rush cd mastering thread

Ok I have a thought: Can we start a Rush thread to include all of the Rush masterings to create less confusion for the "casual" fan wanting to seek out certain masters? So when an expert like Dave says you should seek out version x, you can use this thread to reference his suggestion or also see if there is a version y that may share the same mastering. A specific question I have is I wanna know which Japan AMCY versions share a mastering with another version (WG atomics for instance)? I know many of these questions have been answered in other Steve Hoffman forums, so feel free to add those direct links to this one. In the end, I'd like to have EVERY cd version with all of the peak levels listed once and for all! Also, the member who does the color charts I have seen on here would be very useful for this type of thing (not sure which member he/she is), so I hope to get their help! I know Rush have many fans on this forum, so let's do it justice! Thanks so much!

 

hi steller,

here are the charts I made for threads.









also here are all the Rush EAC peaks I have on file.

Code:

Rush - 2112 - 25 8P:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - 2112 - 25 8P:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - 2112 - 25 8P:   Peak level 72.1 %
Rush - 2112 - 25 8P:   Peak level 82.5 %
Rush - 2112 - 25 8P:   Peak level 52.2 %
Rush - 2112 - 25 8P:   Peak level 66.3 %

Rush - 2112 - WG Atomic:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - 2112 - WG Atomic:   Peak level 95.2 %
Rush - 2112 - WG Atomic:   Peak level 72.6 %
Rush - 2112 - WG Atomic:   Peak level 84.5 %
Rush - 2112 - WG Atomic:   Peak level 55.1 %
Rush - 2112 - WG Atomic:   Peak level 70.2 %

Rush - 2112 Atomic:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - 2112 Atomic:   Peak level 95.2 %
Rush - 2112 Atomic:   Peak level 72.6 %
Rush - 2112 Atomic:   Peak level 84.5 %
Rush - 2112 Atomic:   Peak level 55.1 %
Rush - 2112 Atomic:   Peak level 70.2 %

--------------------------------------------------

Rush - A Farewell To Kings - 25 8P:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - 25 8P:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - 25 8P:   Peak level 94.2 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - 25 8P:   Peak level 92.7 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - 25 8P:   Peak level 69.8 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - 25 8P:   Peak level 95.5 %

Rush - A Farewell To Kings - WG Atomic:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - WG Atomic:   Peak level 91.2 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - WG Atomic:   Peak level 92.0 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - WG Atomic:   Peak level 90.6 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - WG Atomic:   Peak level 68.2 %
Rush - A Farewell To Kings - WG Atomic:   Peak level 93.3 %

--------------------------------------------------

Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 77.6 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 94.7 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 91.6 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 92.0 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 87.5 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 18.8 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 96.4 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 95.1 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 79.4 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 84.9 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - 25 8P:   Peak level 80.2 %

Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 77.6 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 94.7 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 91.6 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 92.0 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 87.5 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 18.8 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 96.4 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 95.1 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 79.4 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 84.9 %
Rush - Exit... Stage Left - WG Atomic:   Peak level 80.2 %

--------------------------------------------------

Rush - Hemispheres - US Atomic:   Peak level 95.5 %
Rush - Hemispheres - US Atomic:   Peak level 91.7 %
Rush - Hemispheres - US Atomic:   Peak level 89.9 %
Rush - Hemispheres - US Atomic:   Peak level 95.5 %

Rush - Hemispheres 25 8P:   Peak level 90.6 %
Rush - Hemispheres 25 8P:   Peak level 84.4 %
Rush - Hemispheres 25 8P:   Peak level 82.8 %
Rush - Hemispheres 25 8P:   Peak level 95.4 %

--------------------------------------------------

Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P:   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P:   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P:   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P:   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P:   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P:   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P:   Peak level 100.0 %

Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix):   Peak level 95.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix):   Peak level 93.3 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix):   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix):   Peak level 97.6 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix):   Peak level 99.6 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix):   Peak level 93.3 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix):   Peak level 91.2 %

Rush - Permanent Waves (MFSL UDCD 772):   Peak level 97.7 %
Rush - Permanent Waves (MFSL UDCD 772):   Peak level 97.7 %
Rush - Permanent Waves (MFSL UDCD 772):   Peak level 97.7 %
Rush - Permanent Waves (MFSL UDCD 772):   Peak level 97.7 %
Rush - Permanent Waves (MFSL UDCD 772):   Peak level 97.7 %
Rush - Permanent Waves (MFSL UDCD 772):   Peak level 97.7 %

--------------------------------------------------

Rush - Permanent Waves - 25 8P:   Peak level 82.1 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - 25 8P:   Peak level 89.6 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - 25 8P:   Peak level 85.9 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - 25 8P:   Peak level 78.6 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - 25 8P:   Peak level 82.7 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - 25 8P:   Peak level 89.6 %

Rush - Permanent Waves - WG Atomic:   Peak level 82.1 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - WG Atomic:   Peak level 89.6 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - WG Atomic:   Peak level 85.9 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - WG Atomic:   Peak level 78.6 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - WG Atomic:   Peak level 82.7 %
Rush - Permanent Waves - WG Atomic:   Peak level 89.6 %

--------------------------------------------------

Rush - Signals (MFSL UDCD 614):   Peak level 82.4 %
Rush - Signals (MFSL UDCD 614):   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Signals (MFSL UDCD 614):   Peak level 87.3 %
Rush - Signals (MFSL UDCD 614):   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Signals (MFSL UDCD 614):   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Signals (MFSL UDCD 614):   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Signals (MFSL UDCD 614):   Peak level 97.9 %
Rush - Signals (MFSL UDCD 614):   Peak level 100.0 %

Rush - Signals - 25 8P:   Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Signals - 25 8P:   Peak level 91.7 %
Rush - Signals - 25 8P:   Peak level 85.9 %
Rush - Signals - 25 8P:   Peak level 91.6 %
Rush - Signals - 25 8P:   Peak level 97.7 %
Rush - Signals - 25 8P:   Peak level 90.1 %
Rush - Signals - 25 8P:   Peak level 98.7 %
Rush - Signals - 25 8P:   Peak level 94.9 %

Rush - Signals - US Atomic:   Peak level 83.4 %
Rush - Signals - US Atomic:   Peak level 77.4 %
Rush - Signals - US Atomic:   Peak level 86.8 %
Rush - Signals - US Atomic:   Peak level 90.3 %
Rush - Signals - US Atomic:   Peak level 92.2 %
Rush - Signals - US Atomic:   Peak level 96.1 %
Rush - Signals - US Atomic:   Peak level 86.0 %
Rush - Signals - US Atomic:   Peak level 90.4 %

Rush - Signals - WG Atomic:   Peak level 83.4 %
Rush - Signals - WG Atomic:   Peak level 77.4 %
Rush - Signals - WG Atomic:   Peak level 86.8 %
Rush - Signals - WG Atomic:   Peak level 90.3 %
Rush - Signals - WG Atomic:   Peak level 92.2 %
Rush - Signals - WG Atomic:   Peak level 96.1 %
Rush - Signals - WG Atomic:   Peak level 86.0 %
Rush - Signals - WG Atomic:   Peak level 90.4 %

If any one wants to continue the chart effort, I'll be glad to send you my spreadsheets. Otherwise I can try to do when I have time?

 

Thanks ricks! Excellent!

 

I think the MFSL versions are the best for the ones they have. The others I don't know. I find the non remastered ones to be too bright compared to the gold versions played side by side.

 

The MFSL of 2112 sounds awful. It's too bright for me and Geddy's voice sounds really shrill on it. I prefer the West German Atomic it has a nice sound to it and it reminds me of the vinyl.

 

Other than 2112 I like the original MFSL's. On MP the atomic is just as good and costs $40 or so less. Signals is nice sounding but regardless of the reasons "The Weapon" is not the same mix. To me it's just not worth 3-4x the cost above the great Atomic. Yes I have them all but it the stupid collector in me.

My recommendation for the average person looking for great sound at fair price is to go Atomic. For collector's or hard core fans get the Atomic, MFSL's, and 25 8P's and give them all a spin and decide.


Here is what I prefer for 2112 -> Signals

2112 - I can't decide between the Atomic and 25 8P. At times I've leaned towards both. I found the MFSL too shrill and not to my personal liking especially given the cost

Hempisheres - currently I lean towards the 25 8P but the Atomic is kick-*** in it's own right

A Farewell To Kings - another one I can't decide between the Atomic and 25 8P. sorry

Permanent Waves - Atomic, 25 8P is same mastering. The new MOFI is decent but why spend the extra money when the atomic is dirt cheap and in my opinion much better. Interesting note the 25 8P does contain "Dewey Defeats Truman" on the artwork. It may be the only CD issued that does? For that reason it sits on my shelf.

Exit...Stage Left - Atomic, 25 8P is same mastering

Moving Pictures - there are tracks I prefer on the Atomic, some I like on the 25 8P and some I like better on the MFSL. I say keep it cheap and go Atomic they are all very close.

Signals - 25 8P by a narrow margin over the Atomic. If "The Weapon" on the MFSL was the real complete version it would be as good as the cheap atomic in my mind. Great and "underrated" album IMHO, my favorite by Rush. Odd that I like very little by them after this one.

 

I`ve got a non remastered Moving Pictures Mercury Polydor U.S. 800 048-2 the half second of Tom Sawyer is included,still not sure wich mastering this is after reading some other threads.Does anyone know how this pressing compares to the Atomic and the others? Because I have not heard the other moving Pictures discs I`m assuming mine is a decent but not the best mastering.

 

It is not bright at all on my system compared to the US original. It is the other way around for me. The Mercury 2112 and MP are both bright when turned up. Someone who has both play them side by side and see if you don't agree.

 

Gerry,

My results were the opposite of your but matched the poster to who you were responding. 2112 is somewhat shrill to begin with, the MFSL makes is more so. I know a few here like it, but for the big money it costs many will simply not be happy. The atomic sounds great at low volumes and cranked both in my car and on home systems. Yeah folks - I know I've nothing listed in my profile :sigh. Bottom line it's personal opinion but before before folks decide to spend $50-$60 more than the atomic I'd recommend they hear a MOFI sample it could save them a decent chunk of cash. I'd post one but I have it packed away in storage which makes it a far too time consuming effort right now. Maybe some good person can step up and post 30 second clips from the MFSL twilight zone and passage for the gang here.

For MP please keep in mind there is more than 1 atomic mastering. I find the one with the matrix that ends in "-2" is best. The one that ends in 1 is bright and harsh but the "-2" is excellent. That said. I've no preference on this album as to me some tracks are better on the MOFI and some are better on the Atomic, one track (vital signs I think?) I like better on the 25 8P. When all is said and done on a budget looking for an equally good MP CD go with the "-3" atomic. I think all US Atomics of MP are the "-2" / or do the US' say "-3"?, but I'm not 100% sure. If you have the money get the MFSL but don't expect much of difference they are really very, very close.

P.S. All above is IMHO

 

Ricks,

Great thread! One question I have always wondered about - I have an entire mint run of mid-late 80's original Canadian first pressing Anthems here on the shelf from Rush (74) thru to Grace Under Pressure.

Are these masterings related to or the same as the Atomics or the 25 8P's? Or are they something completely unique to the Canuck marketplace?

Cheers!

VP

 

The MFSL 2112 definitely has a boost in the 5K-7K range that is nasty. If you knock that area down a bit, it sounds similar to the original. I'd say save your money and get an atomic.

 

I remember reading in another thread that some are unique. I've no details on any of them. I would however love to get Signals so I can complete my "collection" of that album on CD.

 

Hey steeler1979 and ricks (and others who have directly compared)- I know this has been discussed before, but I have to ask ... In general, you prefer the original releases for them? Not the remasters? And then ... how "bad" are the remasters in your opinions? IOW, unlistenable, vs "not bad for remasters", vs somewhere in between?

 

I'd rate the remasters "somewhere in between". I used to have them all. They were my introduction to Rush. They aren't so bad that you can't fall in love with the great music, but once you hear the sonically superior earlier versions, you realize how lacking the remasters are.

 

Cool, that's kinda what I thought. And a follow on question for everyone who has directly compared: I have all remasters right now. If I wanted to get one or two original (atomics) and compare for the largest differences, which discs would you recommend I start with?

 

Can't help you there. I'd say pick your favorite album and get an alternate version of that. If you like what you hear, go from there. You'll probably want to keep the All The World's A Stage and Exit Stage Left remasters for the extra tracks. Those can also be found on the 2CD Chronicles compilation.

 

Excellent advice

 

I definitely prefer the original pressings, especially those from Japan, but as far as remasters go, I don't think they are horrible. Some are "brighter" than they should be, but no where near brickwalled or anything (like Vapor Trails for instance). The good thing is most used places will put the readily available originals in the bins (usually) cheaper than the remasters! Happy hunting!

 

The remasters aren't bad but for the Rush 1976-1982 era that I am into, I greatly prefer the originals. I still have Exit... as it has all the material from the original LP on the same disc, the others I ditched a year or 2 back. Most of the originals can usually be found for the same or less money than the remasters at a used shop or ebay. So it's not a case of a rare expensive disc being favored. I think the biggest difference I found of the original over the remaster was probably Permanent Waves. Or maybe Signals as the remaster lacked the punch of the atomic or the MOFI (kills me that the weapon is wrong). Now that I think about it the differences for most albums were all pretty decent. The closest may have been Exit... In which the remaster had a bit more clarity at the expense of dynamics.

Please note I never owned or compared the remaster of All The World's A Stage.

Rick

 

I don't think compression is the problem with the Rush remasters. They aren't ear bleeders. But they are EQ'd less then optimally. Maybe some NR was used in some cases? They just don't sound as lively (from my memory) as the earlier masterings.

 

The "hotter" the master - the less lively it becomes. That's too much compression rearing it's ugly head. The original pressings have a ton of headroom and are miles below in level from today's brick topped ear bleeders - hence - the reason they sound so much better. EQ is in there as well...but level is the real killer in so many modern remasters....

I so was upset with the levels and loudness when I purchased Vapor Trails...I used it for a coffee coaster.

 

I don't disagree

 

The remasters aren't bad from compression. It's the EQ to blame, they are very BRIGHT. I didn't own any Rush pre-Presto on CD until 2 years ago. I just had vinyl copies on Mercury. The remasters didn't sound the same. I picked up originals of Signals, Grace, and Power Windows and those do sound a lot closer to what I'm familiar with. Perhaps the rest of the originals are like this too, I don't know. I've heard bad about the first 3 albums (original CDs), that they are 'muddy'. I don't know if they actually are.

 

Does anyone on earth own the AMCY versions? I really wanna know if these masters are unique and how they sound. Dave? Anyone?

 

About all I can say is I've never been impressed with any CD from Japan by any artist including Rush that carries the AMCY catalog index.