The Rush cd mastering thread

This is interesting. I did not raise my hand I had the WG Atomic 2112 and didn't really like it. Thought Geddy's vocals sounded unnecessarily shrill (even for Geddy ). I suppose boosted treble would explain that. I haven't heard any other digital versions of the album, but Geddy's voice sounds much better on the vinyl.

 

I have already resigned myself to the fact that I might have to keep mulitple discs around for some of these. These 2 for 2112, and then the US atomic and silverface for MP.

My plan, slowly, is to compare all of the Atomics, silverfaces, and Canadian original issues up to Power Windows. I'm not interested in paying for the Japanese discs. But ... if anyone ever wants a comparison done with any of those or the MFSLs out there, just post a sample from the relevant disc, and I can always look at it wrt the three versions I plan to look at for each release.

Curbach- What is your favorite for 2112 then? I am still comparing the Atomic vs the CA Anthem. I found a section right around 10 min to 10:45 or so of 2112 (track 1) that has a lot of cymbal crashes. To be honest, I noticed (not in a good way) the treble of the Atomic while I was casually listening through the disc in this section. Today when I listened to the CA Anthem, that section didn't overly strike me as much as the Atomic.

 

The WG Atomic is the only digital version I've heard, so I can't offer any other digital insights. I do like my vinyl--I think it's a Howie Weinberg job. The Gilbert Kong cuts are supposedly the best.

 

Nice! I will be watching with interest.

 

Man, when I first got into this, I thought it was going to be easy. But it won't be.

Some US silverfaces are the same as the Atomics, Permanent Waves is a new one I found that's the same, and then I did accidentally find that the WG Atomic is the same as the US Atomic for Grace Under Pressue. (Someone *please* tell me that all the US atomics are the same as the WG atomics? )

But I have figured out in the last day or so that all of these are *different* releases of the original Canadian Anthem CDs: ANK, VANK, ANMD, and ANC. There might be others too. I'm *hoping* they are all the same mastering for each release. And ... you have to be careful, because for Rush (s/t) through Power Windows (the ones I *really* care about), the original catalog numbers are 1001 to 1049, with those different prefixes. For the remasters, luckily they changed the catalog numbers to > 1075.

OK, I guess all that is in here anyway ! http://www.wellers.demon.co.uk/Compact Discography.htm#_Toc49851782

(Although I have 1017 in addition for Hemispheres and in there it's just 1015/1014. 1014, 1015, and 1017 here for Hemispheres: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthem_Records_discography )

 

Ok, the US silverface for 2112 is the same as the Atomic. I do like the Canadian Anthem more for this one. In comparison, the Atomic is slightly on the bright side I think, like some of you have noted.

 

Oh, and a question: WG Atomic for Grace Under Pressure. There is some "digital" noise at about 15s and 27s for Distant Early Warning. Do all discs have this? (I haven't checked the RM, not that it would matter to me if the RM didn't have it but the Atomic does. The Atomic is quite nice sounding otherwise.) ??

Another question: I can't seem to find a US silverface for Grace. Is there one? I keep finding atomics when I ask different sellers.

 

This has been an ongoing question for many years. Those sounds were intentional on the recording (I guess to mimic static on a frequency). They are present on the vinyl and cassette versions also. I can imagine a lot of people returning their vinyl or cassette back to the record stores when it was released years ago thinking they had bad copy or something. LOL

I don't know if there is a silverface. Maybe the Canadian Anthem version? I only have the US Atomic, the WG Atomic and the remaster.

 

I've never heard any vinyl of Grace Under Pressure, but those static noises at
the beginning of Distant Early Warning have been on every version I've ever
owned, including the original tape cassette I purchased the day it was released
back in April of 1984. It also can be heard on the "Chronicles" compilation and
"The Spirit of Radio: Greatest Hits". If you watch the Distant Early Warning
video on youtube, you can even hear it (although the overall sound quality
of anything on youtube is horrid).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rC0u9MdHA98

I remember thinking "WTF?" the first time I heard it and that it really didn't fit in,
but after all these years, its safe to say that its an intentional part of the
recording.

 

Correct. I have live versions as well where they use the "static" as an effect.

 

Seems like to be complete that discog in the link should list the atomic and silverface versions of the US non-remastered CDs, especially since some are apparently different masterings.

The prevailing view to this point is that the US Atomics are the same as the WG ones - I don't believe there has been a difference found other than the Moving Pictures issue with 2 different WG atomics.

Funny that you mention GuP. I recently got an original to replace my remaster and like you said, everyone seemed to have an atomic.

Do you have a summary for what has been found so far regarding US silvers vs. atomics? Any preferences for cases where they are different?


.

 

Static on Distant Early Warning ... Yeah, I didn't want to say because I wasn't sure I remembered correctly, but I do remember this on the lp as well. Cool.

Summary- Yes. Once I get the summary done, I'll post a "picture" of it. I'm not sure it'll be as nice as what Ricks and Roland post, but we'll see how it comes out. I did find a dealer up in Quebec who had 7 of the Canadian Anthems I need. Enroute now. Only need the original Canadian Anthem for Hemispheres now.

 

Shoot- Got my 1st original Canadian multiple for Moving Pictures. VANK-1030 and ANMD-1030. The VANK is the same as the US silverface. The ANMD, as had been pointed out previously, is a different mastering. EQ comparison:



The ANMD is very similar to the US silverface/VANK (and remaster), but with even more of a treble boost. Not preferred. I personally like the 03 Atomic the best, and then I like the US silverface/VANK as a good "alternative" disc.

I think I remember reading that Moving Pictures is the only one with multiple early masterings? Maybe because of how big a seller it was? It's hard enough finding one each for those original Canadian discs. Don't want to have to search down ANMDs and VANKs ... And raises the question if the really early ANC discs are different, and there are ANKs and WANKs too. (Seriously. ) The VANKs seem the easiest to find.

And then possibly similar to Grace Under Pressure, not having an easy time finding US silverfaces for Signals or Power Windows. Keep finding Atomics. Do silverfaces exist for these?

 

In my admittedly limited experience, U.S. silverfaces are the same as the atomics (the obvious exception being Moving Pictures). I know this to be true of Permanent Waves and I'm pretty sure it's true for a couple of other titles I am not recalling right now.

 

Earlier in this thread someone mentioned that Exit Stage Left is different, at least for some tracks.

 

Here's the results of "Grace Under Pressure" on cd

35.8P-44:

100% /100% /100% /100% /100% /100% /100% /100%



WG/USA atomic version:

96.2% /95.1% /98.0% /95.8% /93.9% /96.6% /92.3% /95.3%



25.8P-5077:

100% /100% /100% /100% /100% /100% /100% /100%


Trust me when I tell you that the 35.8P version is definitely a different mastering than the 25.8P even though they share the same EAC peak levels
(100% is a common peak level obviously)

 

I hear you. The problem is that since MP is different, I need to now know if any others are different.

And now since I know that at least one VANK is different than its ANMD counterpart, I am compelled to investigate the rest now too.

It's an addiction, I tell you !! (And it's supposed to be a hobby and fun ... )


Oh, and another question that might have already been answered. I typically don't go after Japanese CDs because of cost. But I see these cheap AMCY discs all over the place. Is there any general rule as far as their mastering? Same as the earlier Japanese discs? Same as Atomics?

 

OK idiot alert:

I was looking and listening to the wrong wav file when I posted that the
25.8P differs from the 35.8P They ARE in fact one in the same. So sorry for the misinformation

 

They are the same masterings as the 25.8P versions

 

Ahhh, I need to remember that, because ...

Ricks was kind enough to get me a sample of the 25-8P for 2112. Wait for it ... wait for it ... here it comes ...



Maybe not the same mastering, but very similar (from the same analog tape?) as the original Anthem VANK 1004 that I personally like better than the Atomic.

So ... if the AMCYs are the same as the 25-8P's which are possibly the same as some of the early Canadian Anthem versions ... makes tracking down one or the other a little easier.

Here's a question I *have* to ask though: do we know that all the AMCYs are the same for Rush through Power Windows? (The ones I care about the most, anyway.)

 

Hi everyone...what about Caress of Steel?!!!

My two cents on this thread is as follows:

Caress of Steel - original West Germany `Atomic` with the sharp/flat outer edge (unlike the others with their smooth, rounded outer edge) was easily the best of the original CD tranfers. I gave away my entire Rush first issue CD collection years ago to a friend when I bough all of the remasters thinking I would have no need for them any more...

The original Caress CD is to my memory (going back 12 years now since I last heard it) was of a very, very detailed and dynamic transfer. The Remaster, whilst having a perceiveably smoother overall eq balance is nowhere near as detailed or dynamic as the edition I outlined above. However, I pretty much only listen to Rush on vinyl these days and my A1/B1 copy of Caress offers the best of both worlds and then some. As for all the comments regarding brightness, harshness etc. at higher listening levels this is I`m afraid down to the limited 16 bit encoding and poor Transport/DAC technology. Have a listen to a really good CD player like the WADIA 861 or similar and you will find that many of these problems almost entirely disappear. As for PC based systems...really, you guys have got to be kidding!!! I agree that they are great for the anaylitical side of things but how many transistors does the signal from the transport have to pass through before it reaches your speakers? Millions!!! The phrase `less is more` applies to audio in the extreme. I only use an Arcam DV88 as my Cd player as it`s smooth an inoffensive on most recordings so I`m not some elitist hi-fi snob btw (although I have spent a very very significant sum of money on my analog front end - for the love of the sound not to brag and belittle others).

Great thread and thanks to all who contributed so much valuable information.

Best wishes from Dublin, Ireland to all

Dave.

 

Eh? That does *not* explain why some masterings are more harsh and fatiguing on the same system, no matter what it is, vs others. I.e., it's the mastering silly!

 

OK, Dave says he has the ANC-1 disc, and I have this now, and those are the EAC numbers (the bolded ones). Steeler1979- I don't understand "ANC 11030" ? At first, I thought this was simply "ANC-1-1030" written differently. But those aren't the right EAC numbers. But ... the EAC numbers you have listed for that disc match what I have for the US silverface which is the same as the Canadian Anthem VANK-1030 and ANMD-1030 disc.

Do you have the "ANC 11030" disc? Or could you have jumbled the numbers somehow?

[Added]: and the numbers for the "ANC 11030" up above also match what Yestiles posted previously for a USA non-Atomic, non-remaster (matrix 800 048-2 04% GW), and from TMan: a USA non-Atomic with the same peak values, with matrix "8000482 03@".

Complicated !!

 

Duh: Yesstiles and TMan's non-Atomic's with those same EAC numbers are US silverfaces ...

 

I too bought all the 74-87 remasters back when they came out ('97?). Sold all my atomic w.german and usa cds (Permanent Waves was the only silver faced cd made in Japan)-I think. I didn't even do a/b comparisons but I wished like heck I had kept the originals.