The Rush cd mastering thread

Exactly! he was probably doing his listening comparisons with one of these:

 

Here's some Power Windows peak levels according to EAC:

Rush 25.8P-5078:

100 /85.6 /94.2 /80.0 /78.8 /78.4 /91.3 /85.6

original West German atomic Mercury 826 098 2 M-1:

95.5 /81.7 /89.9 /72.1 /75.2 /76.6 /89.2 /85.5

still curious about the 32.8P version if anyone can grab theirs and check it!

 

Uh oh! A new player in the game for Power Windows. The Anthem version is different as well!

VANK 1049:

97.7 /83.6 /92.0 /78.1 /78.8 /78.4 /91.3 /85.6

Rush 25.8P-5078:

100 /85.6 /94.2 /80.0 /78.8 /78.4 /91.3 /85.6

original West German atomic Mercury 826 098 2 M-1:

95.5 /81.7 /89.9 /72.1 /75.2 /76.6 /89.2 /85.5

 

And more Moving Pictures data. We already knew this:

Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P: Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P: Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P: Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P: Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P: Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P: Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - 25 8P: Peak level 100.0 %

Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix): Peak level 95.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix): Peak level 93.3 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix): Peak level 100.0 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix): Peak level 97.6 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix): Peak level 99.6 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix): Peak level 93.3 %
Rush - Moving Pictures - WG Atomic (03 matrix): Peak level 91.2 %

But now we know this: Rush - Moving Pictures - Anthem ANC 11030:

Peak level 100.0 %
Peak level 99.7 %
Peak level 100.0 %
Peak level 99.9 %
Peak level 100.0 %
Peak level 100.0 %
Peak level 100.0 %

And:
EAC peak levels from the first WG version (matrix 800 048-2 02 #):

100.0
100.0
100.0
100.0
100.0
100.0
100.0

and supposedly there is a Canadian Anthem version that has these readings (I haven't confirmed this):

Moving Pictures
Peak level 95.7 %
Peak level 89.0 %
Peak level 94.8 %
Peak level 82.1 %
Peak level 99.5 %
Peak level 91.5 %
Peak level 75.6 %

 

A lot more complicated than we all thought ...



If we can get samples for some of these, we might be able to tell if they are the same masterings or not.

And I can compare the 2 2112s here hopefully later today.

 

I bought this remaster, and I don't have the original, so I can't compare by ear. Obviously, if the only difference was dynamic range, I would prefer the original.

However, that is obviously not the only difference between remasters. Moving Pictures, an album I'm much better acquainted with is certainly dynamically compressed. I could post some graphics like you did, but you don't even need to measure it to hear it.

On the other hand, on the remaster it is easier to hear the articulation and tone of the bass notes (but the leading edges of the notes have more impact on the original), the guitars are cleaner on the remaster, and the drums sound more tonally natural, but they've been sort of dynamically castrated.

It isn't a clear-cut this one is better, the other one is worse, simply because one has greater dynamics. Some of the Rush remasters fared better than others. I'm sure all suffered some degree of compression, which is regrettable. But I definitely prefer the remaster of Hold Your Fire. And probably Power Windows. Compression is not the only consideration, unless that is the most important thing to your ears.

This is what makes me so frustrated with some of the remasters. They are truly better in many ways, but then they had to suck the dynamic life out to some extent.

 

To my ears, the gold is in the middle of these and just perfect, as is 2112, as is PW, like them or not. All of the gold CDs fall between the originals and the RMs for my ears.

 

Wonder if they are the same? Since all peaks are at 100% waveforms or other analysis will be needed.

Does PW=Power Windows?

 

Permanent Waves Mobile Fidelity I believe

 

I have this one. Catalog ANC-1-1030

 

Personally I don't think it's close. With Moving Pictures I haven't heard the US or Canadian originals but the WG Atomic is damn near as good as the MOFI to my ears. Certainly I wouldn't have paid the kind of price you see the MOFI go for, over that. I had the remaster and it's bright to my ears but not that nasty.

The Rush Remaster of Permanent Waves however, was an ear bleeder. The WG Atomic is fine.

Steve

 

page 5 of this thread has a good summary of MP:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=112065&highlight=moving+pictures&page=5

That album must be in the running for most 'pre-masters' prior to an acknowledged remaster.


.

 

Thanks Dave!

 

Go with the remasters. Great sound and they're affordable.

 

The US originals are even more affordable, and by most accounts are an improvement. I only have remaster and original of one album (Counterparts), and in that case I definitely prefer the original. I will be able to test GuP soon.

This thread is more about determining the various masterings prior to the remasters though.

 

I didn't bother with the Counterparts or Test For Echo remasters because those were '90s albums that sounded fine in their initial form.

 

The originals especially the non-atomic pre-remasters are the cheapest. I see them for $5.99/$6.99 at shops in my area. The remasters on the other hand sell for $8.99/$9.99 used and more new. Plus the originals sound much better to most who have directly compared. Once again for best sound at a fair price "Go Atomic"TM

 

fixed it just a bit.

 

This is key.

 

Here you go:

100.0 %
85.6 %
94.2 %
80.0 %
78.8 %
78.4 %
91.3 %
85.6 %

Same as the 25.8P.

 

PW = Permanent Waves. Of course. Thanks. That explains the MOFI reference. Don't know why I though of the much weaker Power Windows album

 

The "02" WG Atomic version and the 25.8P are DEF different. They do have the same peak levels, but remember the "02" version is the one with the chopped off part at the start of Tom Sawyer. The 28.8P version is absolutely fantastic, my favorite version of MP!

 

Thanks! I ordered one anyway!

 

So ... anyone have the Atomic for 2112? (Show of hands.) Does anyone like it? (Show of hands.) Does anyone think it's too bright?

EQ analysis of the WG Atomic vs the original Anthem Canadian CD vs the remaster:



Amazingly, both the CA Anthem and the remaster have somewhat rolled off bass and a fair amount of treble roll off compared to the Atomic.

Dynamic range: both the Atomic and CA Anthem have a value of 13 for Something for Nothing, whereas the remaster is reduced by almost a 3rd to 9.

I listened to the Atomic today. Didn't feel it was too bright. Need to compare more though.

I *do* think it's quite interesting that just as in the case for Moving Pictures, the remaster for 2112 isn't a "from the ground up" remaster. The remaster for MP is very close to the US silverface disc, and for 2112, the remaster is very close to the CA Anthem. Aside from the reduced dynamics in both cases. So for those who do find *some* aspects of the remasters desirable, might be some older versions with untouched dynamic range that have similar EQ.

 

I meant 25.8P sorry (not 28.8P which doesn't exist )