The Rush cd mastering thread

bump

Other than for Moving Pictures (which has it's own thread where at least 5 different 'pre-masters' have been identified), has it ever been determined which silver-faced CDs are the same as the US Atomics (and whether those Atomics are the same as the West German Atomics)?

I've seen this asked a couple of times in various threads and don't think there has been a definitive answer.

 

Missing several vocals. Apparently they were not on the master tape and dubbed in later or something. Regardless of the reason, vocals are not there and totally changes the song, and not for the better IMHO. All other issues of this album in every format contain the vocals so no need to worry you have any of them.

The Weapon is one of my favorite Rush tracks, as a result I never listen to the MFSL. If you are a fan of this album pick up a cheap atomic at minimum it's as good as the MFSL and all songs on it are the "correct" mix. If I wasn't a completest of this album I would have sold my MOFI long ago, but for those that aren't you can "Go Atomic", sell the gold disc and pocket the difference

 

It seems all the early ones sound bad. I don't know what to do about NR on CD.

 

The silver face U.S.A. version of 2112 has the same peak levels as the W. Germany Atomic disc.

My U.S.A. Atomic Exit...Stage Left has the same peak values as the W. Germany Atomic disc.

 

Great, thanks. There's one silver-faced down. (yeah obviously if the US silver face is the same as the W German Atomic, even better - cut out the middle man - as long as they are the same that is.)

 

I don't know much about Rush CD masters. All I know is that I purchased some of their remastered CD's a few years ago. What a terrible mistake. They sound awful..lifeless, no bass, way too bright and overcompressed and digitally clipped enough to blow my tweeters out at low volume! STAY AWAY FROM THESE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD

 

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that the silver face U.S.A. Exit...Stage Left does not match the U.S.A. Atomic or W. Germany Atomic (which are the same). Actually, some of the tracks do match and some do not.

 

Great info! Thanks!!

 

found some info

 

Cool. I also found this on Wikipedia:

So might need to keep both. Signals and Grace Under Pressure is my absolute favorite period of the band. But A Farewell to Kings, Permanent Waves, and 2112 also hold very special places in my heart too. (I remember struggling to stay up to midnight as a kid when the local radio station played AFTK all the way through when it 1st came out.)

I have a few originals on the way. When I get them, I have an EQ thing I sometimes do to better compare between discs. I'm also following the question of whether early US for US discs have the same masterings as the WG and Japanese (?) Atomics. Still coming up to speed ...

 

Which mastering do you prefer? The silverface or the Atomic?

 

Just curious about your EQ thing. What do you do?

 

I think you've seen it. Use Audacity to extract the freq spectra of a 23.8s section (program limit for whatever reason). Then import into Excel, subtract to see the difference, then plot. You can't know which is the "correct" one, but with the plot and listening, you can often make conclusions about how the masterings are different. I.e., something smiley faced vs something more flat.

See post 1007 here for example. The relevant discussion starts at the 2nd post on the page: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=183481&highlight=black+sabbath+deluxe&page=51

 

I don't like the compression on the remasters. I borrowed a friend's original MP to compare to the remaster. Clearly one could hear the impact of bass and drum transients better on the original. Otherwise, to me the original seemed a bit "veiled" and the high frequencies had that early digital "brittleness" to them. I believe the MoFi is the best of both worlds, having better clarity and lack of "digititis" and dynamics.

People are largely making judgments strictly on the basis of perceived tonal balance and dynamics. But there are other qualities that matter to me. Can you hear the ambiance? How well are you able to distinguish the individual instrumental and vocal lines? Do the cymbals and hi-hats have a natural or an artificial tizzy-splashy character? These are the kinds of qualities that generally make me prefer MoFi releases, apart from the intact dynamics. (I haven't heard the 2112, tho'.)

 

Couldn't tell you as I've never heard the silverface. I just know someone who has it and ran it through EAC for me. Sorry.

 

Ok cool thanks. You might want to check out Voxengo's excellent CurveEQ plugin. Although it's not free, the demo works fine for capturing and comparing EQ curves and matching EQs. The demo just inserts a beep every 45 seconds, but you can still see the differences in two curves. It even has a spectrum capture tool that allows you to capture the spectrum curves from files without playing them and then comparing them in the plugin. I've found it to work really well so eventually I bought a copy and use it quite often.

 

'Several'?

AFAIK, the last vocal line is missing, and it is a different mix.

That is all. Certainly doesn't blow the song for me.

 

It's 1 line of vocals missing from every chorus. Saying several are missing as a result is correct, although it's actually the same vocal that is absent over and over. Yes - that makes it a different mix! The correct [original] version had that line mixed in prior to release. If it does not bother you fine, but that does not change the fact that the error exists. Seems to me the other poster wants the track to be correct on what is a high priced Gold CD. Doesn't seem the least bit unreasonable to me!

 

I'm sorry to say but this is incorrect. There is only one line missing from the MFSL and it occurs 3:14 into the track.

And the things that we fear are a weapon to be held against us.


If you hear something else, can you please post exactly what is missing. I checked what you put in your post and I hear it on my MFSL.

 

I've got the Atomics and really like them! I never blind-tested between them and the MFSLs, so I'll eventually get around to that. Off the top of my head, though, the Atomic are more clear, but the MFSLs have better bass. Tough decision for me.

 

WRONG

"In "The Weapon", one line of lyrics that appears on all other pressings is missing from the MFSL release (at 3:12). MFSL has stated that this was the case on the master delivered to them by the band."

 

Oh no, it looks like another track on the Mofi is ruined!

'but the MFSL version is particularly great sounding. It has that warm sound MFSL is known for, plus there are a couple of variations unique to this release. On the song The Weapon, there is one line of lyrics missing, and The Analog Kid lasts a little bit longer.'




I'm happy to get a different, exclusive mix on my high-priced gold CD. I was also not angered when I listened to the entire side one of TAAB on my high-priced gold (VERY high-priced, oh yessss indeed, Preciousss!!!) DCC version of Tull's Original Masters, a true abomination when compared to the USA ***** version.

 

The Weapon is one of my favorite Rush tracks and pretty much what got me 'into' the band. The missing line for me personally, is crucial to the song and a deal breaker.

I don't mind if Analog Kid and New World Man are a few seconds longer even though though they shouldn't be that way.

Regardless of ones feeling's over what is missing and what was added or the reasons for it, to the MFSL Signal's it does not change the fact that it is incorrect/not original. Simply put I want what I remember and not some Lucus type revisionism to my memory's; so I only play the Atomic or 25 8P when I want to listen to this album as result. Not to mention Subdivisions sounds best on the 25 8P and the Atomic to me.

I guess If I was compiling a mix I might use the AK and NWM from the MOFI simply for the obscureness factor.

 

I have a humble request: Can anyone who has a non-remastered US silver-faced version of any Rush CD(s) post the EAC peak values when they get a chance? (I only have Moving Pictures in silver version and it has been determined that it is different than at least some Atomics, in a thread on that album in particular.)

In page three of below linked thread 'ricks' has graciously posted EAC values for Japanese, US Atomics, and WG Atomics of 2112 through Signals. For these, the WG and US Atomics are the same except for the quirky MP issue.

It would be great if we could determine which silver faces share the Atomic mastering.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=184495&highlight=rush+usa&page=3

 

Also reposted earlier in this very thread.

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=5370494&postcount=2

For those of you looking at the old link TMan provided. I've been listened to the Atomics a lot recently and have gained a new found appreciation. What's not to like they are good 'n cheap. Currently I only prefer the 25 8P of Signals over the Atomic and it's not by much. For 2112/AFWTK/Hemi I am now undecided, and it will remain that way as no compares will be forthcoming.