The Rush cd mastering thread

I saw that, but it doesn't have all the US and WG Atomics on it like the one I linked to.

I saw somewhere that joelee said he had compared all the early versions. If you're reading this joelee, do you have info on which silver-faces are the same as Atomics?

So far, we know that MP is different, and it has been stated above that Exit... is different, and that 2112 is the same.

 

I don't have the CDs anymore, but depsite the missing lyrics from 'The Weapon', I always preferred the mastering of the MFSL to the 25.8P. I seem to recall the MFSL sounding just a tad more warmer then the 25.8P. I'm strictly vinyl now, so can't contribute further in this discussion, although I did rip all of my preferrred CD versions to my hard drive before selling them on

 

oh... please don't kill me - I know that somewhere in time someone must have already answer. but I don't want to look for it for too long.
::::::::
Is there any difference between the German and the Us Atomics ?

thanks !

 

Same for the albums I have. See attached text file in this post:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=4489205&postcount=47

For Moving Pic's the first WG "Green Arrow" and Atomic pressing would differ from the later WG and US Atomic's. It's the one with the missing 1/2 beat on Tom Sawyer. Considered to be an overall inferior mastering to what replaced it.

 

The Japanese AMCY-320 version of Hemisphere's is the same mastering as the Japanese 25.8P version according to EAC

However,expert Dave warns that they do not sound identical and I have no reason to doubt his opinion, so fyi

 

Steeler1979, but if you rip it and either listen from your hard drive, or burn a CD-R from the rip, it *will* sound identical. Has to do with the ease of reading that info from the CD.

OK, I got my very 1st original US silverface CD today. A Farewell to Kings. One of my faves. OK, why should I listen to this (the remaster):



When I can listen to this (the old US silverface):





That offline Dynamic Range meter says the remaster has 9dB of dynamic range, the silverface has 12 dB.

EQ is actually relatively close between them:



So yes, in the big world of overall remasters, these actually aren't bad. But with how cheap the older, better ones (IMO) are ...

EAC values for this one: 95.5 % 91.2 % 92.0 % 90.6 % 68.2 % 93.3 %. (Same as the WG Atomic from Ricks table in post #2. Yay. )

 

Let's not introduce that into this nice thread, Please It's something few agree on and temper's flare rather easily. I myself have argued from both sides of the fence/debate at one time. Now that I have a significant amount (approx 75) of these compares under my belt I firmly have a grasp on what I believe to be fact or not. Won't get into what it is in this thread as I've already stated it's too nice to ruin with what is basically nonsense in relation to the title subject at hand.



P.S. Unrelated; a somewhat complete list (no anthem's) of RUSH 1976-1982 EAC peaks can be found in downloadable text format in this post:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=4489205&postcount=47

 

Since when is this forum about playing nice?

 

GET OUT!

 

Hey ricks I understand what you are saying and I have went on record stating that I have never found any evidence of this (digitally identical masterings sounding different), however Barry Diament has said the same thing and I certainly wouldn't question him. I just wanted to mention my findings and btw it's my thread so if I wanna introduce it, I will! But ricks, thanks for your valuable input as always, you have provided the best info on this subject and I truly appreciate it

 

I agree with this wholeheartedly and thanks for sharing!

 

I hit my favorite 2 local used CD shops today over lunch. Scored a slew of silverfaced US discs, a WG atomic for Permanent Waves that was marked *cheaper* than 2 other silverface US discs , and US atomics for GUP and MP.

Haven't listened yet, but I would assume that a US Atomic is the 2nd Atomic, and wouldn't have the missing beat at the beginning for MP?

Also, I have a lead on a Canadian Anthem for 2112. Not many people have compared these to the US/WG/Jpn discs for sound quality? If not, then I'll get 2 or 3 of them, and at least see of there's any trends as far as their masterings go.

And then, I don't remember many comments about originals vs RMs for the Atlantic releases? Presto, Roll the Bones, Counterparts, Test for Echo. I got all originals of these today to compare. Will take me some time, but ...

[Added] OK, found this quote from Dave in one of the oft-quoted Rush threads:

So that would simplify things.

 

From: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=112065&page=4 Re MP:

And:

Case by case again ? Moving Pictures Canadian Anthem is different than the WG Atomic too. From Ricks text file and Dr M (and agentalbert).

 

OK, Moving Pictures comparison. A case where the US silverface is a different mastering than the WG atomic (digging through the old threads, this was already known).

US silverface: 100.0 % 99.7 % 100.0 % 99.9 % 100.0 % 100.0 % 100.0 %
WG atomic 03: 95.0 % 93.3 % 100.0 % 97.6 % 99.6 % 93.3 % 91.2 %

I won't post waveforms. Same as for AFTK: the RM is clipped/compressed/whatever. For numbers, that offline Dynamic Range thing says (interestingly enough) that the WG atomic 03 and the US silverface are the same at 14 dB, the RM is not bad, but still reduced at 11 dB.

A look at EQ vs the RM:



The US silverface is amazingly close to the remaster as far as just EQ goes. The RM does have slightly more bass than the US disc. Surprising, aay? As far as the US silverface vs the WG atomic 03, the US does have more bass there too, and a subtle boost around 1-2kHz. They both sound good actually. The inceased bass for the US disc gives more weight mostly to the bass drum I feel, but I also do feel that the WG atomic is probably closer to the original masters and/or vinyl. *Either* is better than the RM, but again, the RM really isn't that bad.

More to come.

 

Just compared the WG atomic against the original 35.8P-44 for "Grace Under Pressure" on EAC. Here's my findings:

WG atomic (same as US atomic):

96.2 /95.1 /98.0 /95.8 /93.9 /96.6 /92.3 /95.3

35.8P-44 :

100 /100 /100 /100 /100 /100 /100 /100

BTW, the 35.8P sounds FABULOUS! The best version of this cd I've ever heard!

 

Steeler1979- Can you post a sample? I'd love to compare. So far of the ones I've listened to, the Atomics are da bomb, but those 100's for the Jpn disc would bother me without knowing more. I'd love to look at the waveforms, dynamic range, EQ, etc.

More tidbits:

Test for Echo: orig Canadian Anthem same as orig US Atlantic.

Roll the Bones: I accidentally ended up with 2 original US discs: RE-1 and RE-2 and they are the same. I'd be curious to know if there's a non RE, and if it's a different mastering ...

For my US atomic for MP: jewel case insert and booklet say Printed in WG, but the disc is a US atomic 03. Someone swapped CDs at one point? Or extra WG booklets and inserts packaged with US discs after they started making them here?

 

A quick easy one. I only have one later Atlantic original and remaster, for Presto. Waveforms, orig 1st then RM, for Show Don't Tell:




Nice, aay? The TT offline Dynamic Range meter says: 14 dB for the original, and 13 dB for the remaster.

EQ:



Smiley faced, aay? But look at the scale. Max of 2 dB of boost. This is a very nice remastering. Now, I still like the original better, but if I didn't already have the original and saw this, I could be perfectly happy with the remaster.

If anyone is curious about any of the other Atlantics, and you can post a sample of a remaster, please do. But I'm not motivated to search out any of them to look at them further.

More later ...

 

Remember the guy from this site:

http://www.soundstage.com/music/reviews/grev012.htm

He said he liked the remaster because it had more bass. I still like the gold.

 

I will try to do it tomorrow when I get back home! Thanks for your enthusiasm Kevin it's contagious!

 

Does anyone know if the Power Windows 32.8P has the same mastering as the 25DP version? I adore the 25DP but I'm just curious

 

I tend to not like "tweaked", and I definitely don't like compression or peak limiting.

Post a sample; I'd love to compare.

 

I need to do some searching, but has this been mentioned at all:

2112 WG Atomic: 95.5 95.2 72.6 84.5 55.1 70.2 38:58.53 393.40 MB
2112 CA Anthem: 100 100 75.5 86.4 54.7 69.4 38:58.13 393.33 MB

Both booklets say "Mastered at Masterdisk, NYC". Same but level shifted by track?

I can do the EQ thing, and look at the waveforms too to check.

 

The MFSL, WG Atomic 03, and 25 8P all have more bass, not to mention more impact/punch, than the remaster. Makes me think the guy on that site never actually compared the RM to the MOFI? He did nail it on the head on the missing line(s) at 3:12 [And the things that he fears
Are a weapon to be held against him..."] from the Weapon on the MOFI Signals

On Power Windows he is overjoyed that RM "is at least 6dB louder yet!" makes me take everything he says with a heavy does of salt. At >6DB louder it will be clipped or limited to prevent that. But he says is solves muddy-ness, huh? But he does like the original Signals better. The guy is all over the map.

 

I may be wrong but I think they are the same as IIRC(?) the WG Atomic matches. I will post my WG Atomic numbers later in week as I've never run them and have to find disc.