Vince Guaraldi's "Jazz Impressions Of Black Orpheus" SACD vs. DCC Gold CD

So, I heard this great tune called Cast Your Fate To The Wind one day and was obsessed with it from the start. I looked it up and found a copy of the tune on a Dick Bartley/Rhino CD. Unfortunately it was a different version than what I expected. Ever heard of Sounds Orchestral? Well, neither had I until this disc. I knew this wasn't the proper version so I looked up Vince in the Jazz section. Found the CD.

That original disc was the Fantasy version and it sounded okay. Then the SACD came out and I was excited to get it. It sounded better but similar to the other CD I had. I just thought that was the sound of the recording.

Then, last week I found a copy of the DCC version. What the hell, I said, I'll buy it again (3 times now) just because it's Steve's take on it. Well kiddies, I had no idea what a shock I was in for. Projecting back now, I felt so ripped off. Steve's version of Black Orpheus made the other two discs sound like black orifice. It's obvious that the original disc and SACD were sourced from a copy tape. They're both suffering from the same problems that just aren't there on the DCC disc.

Then I remembered Steve saying something about a hum on side one and the copy that was made to filter out that hum was labeled Master. I bet the non-DCC discs used that tape and Steve used the original tape (probably labeled Do Not Use).

First of all, the tone of the DCC is more open. This is noticeable on the drums. They're midrangy and compressed on the non-DCC version. There's also a bad tape edit at the beginning of track 2 except for Steve's disc. The tape hiss is very loud on the other discs too.

I could go on like this forever. The point is that the only way to listen to this record is to find the DCC disc. I have no interest in hearing the others anymore. Damn it, it dinks me off that so many companies get things wrong. How is it that Steve knows better than the other people doing this type of work?

One question if you're reading this Steve, I noticed that Cast Your Fate on the DCC disc has the L & R reversed when compared to the other discs (other songs might be switched too). Was this done at the time of the filtered safety copy? Just curious.

 

The tonal differences between songs 1 to 4 on your disc and 1 to 4 on the other discs make me think that they used the copy for those tunes. There's a LOT more hiss, the top end isn't as bright and is compressed sounding (tape compression I'm thinking) and there's a lot more drop outs and bad edits where the piano will pan from R to L slightly. You should hear the dramatic differences between your disc and the others. If you're ever having a bad day check out the others discs. It's a great advertisement for Steve Hoffman.

Oh, by the way, thanks for your hard work on this CD. It's a truly great sounding CD. I'll check out the vinyl too. I have no excuse to not buy this album a fourth time.

 

Re: Guaraldi's Black Orpheus

I'm still amazed at the difference between the DCC and the standard Fantasy CD. My mother bought the original CD back when it came out. I copied it to DAT until I could get my own copy of it. I lucked across a used version many years ago, stumbling upon it accidentally. On first play, I thought it sounded better. But it wasn't until I A/B'ed it with the DAT copy that I just sort of went...."whoa!"

What's really sad is that so many of Fantasy's original CDs sound this way. If Steve was able to get ahold of a proper master, what in the halibut is Fantasy doing with their own CDs? One would hope future versions (CD, or better yet, SACD) would come out using the better tapes and better mastering, but WHY are so many record companies incapable of it??

Sound quality aside, I like a lot of the music on Fantasy. A great little label. Chances are if you like Vince Guaraldi's work, you might like others on the label. I'm a huge Cal Tjader fan, and he was actually signed to Fantasy twice in his career; his early and later Fantasy era sandwiches the 60's Verve recordings, and those few albums he made for Skye (all of which appeared on DCC Jazz CD reissues).

 

Don't tell anybody, but I picked one of these up from Barnes and Noble online last night. They may still have some in stock. Shh!! Doh! I just checked. Gone. I either got one of the last or won't ever get it. It makes you wonder how DCC ever went bye-bye when its titles are now so coveted.

 

The DCC ORPHEUS is simply beautiful! I don't think I'll be needing the AP.

 

No, you won't need the AP version even though it's an SACD.

I'm going to make a Luke-styled MP3 comparisson for you guys to hear. I'll have it up tomorrow.

 

Looking forward to hearing that....

 

Thanks, Steve. Like I needed another copy of this But after that description how can I not pick it up. I love the DCC of it, probably one of my first DCC buys.

 

I also like this record very much... but I haven't purchased any other pressings... I knew Steve's remaster is the only one I need!

 

Re: Guaraldi's Black Orpheus

Ha ha!!! Thanks for the !!!


FFF

 

Wish I'd kept that DAT with the original CD version on it. I could go pick up the CD next time I head over to the house...which, with all the snow, is probably going to be tomorrow when I go over to clean up the sidewalks.

 

I have all three versions and will make a comparison tonight.

 

Jamie,

"Cast Your Fate To The Wind" by Sounds Orchestral was a one hit wonder Top 40 hit in 1965. While the Bill Evans version is the definitive version from a pure Jazz perspective, the version by Sounds Orchestral was the"hit" on Radio. As an FYI...

I have and enjoy both!

Bob

 

I listened to the Sounds Orchestral version again last night. I hadn't heard it in a few years and forgot how good it was.

Never heard the Bill Evans version.

Let's not forget the James Gang version.

 

Jamie,

A brain mis-fire - I meant to say the Vince Guaraldi version, not Bill Evans - sorry about that error!

Bob

 

The Sandpipers did a vocal version on their first A&M album, Guantanamera. David Benoit (a *big* fan of Guaraldi, incidentally) does a nice version on one of his albums as well. It may be on his jazz trio album, Letter To Evan. A Bill Evans tribute...bringing this thread full circle, I guess.

 

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So, here's the three versions of a couple songs from this album. Sample one is the original Fantasy CD, two is the redbook layer of the SACD and three is the DCC disc done by our bud Steve-O.

I picked tunes from the first "side" because I wanted to illustrate that all the discs (except for DCC's) used something other than the original tapes.

Listen to the timbre of the drums on the first tune. When Steve's version plays, the tone just opens up. On the second tune, listen to the bad edit. The SACD has some pretty radical panning going on before and after the edit. The edit isn't there on the DCC disc (neither is the hiss).

I think the third tune best shows off the differences between the discs. The DCC is so far superior to the others on this track I bet even those of you listening on crappy computer speakers will hear the differences. Imagine what it would sound like on your good system.

By the way, thanks HZ for helping me post this, er, post.

 

Thanks for posting this. I wonder why there is so much hiss on the second tune, except for steves version. Different tape source between all or EQ?

In your opinion, do you feel the SACD layer on the APO SACD is any better than its redbook layer?

 

You do realize, Jamie, that you're about to cause the price of used Orpheus DCC's to go through the roof!

jeff

 

I'm so jazz-challenged. Sounds like I'm really missing something here. I think I'm going to start learning by picking up some of the old DCC gold jazz titles, many of which can still be had for pretty cheap.


__________
AC

 

The reason for the hiss is probably due to the extra tape generation(s) possibly done to eliminate that grounding hum Steve says runs through the first four tunes. He told us there was an EQ'd tape made that filtered it out. I'm guessing that this is the tape all the other labels used except for DCC. I haven't gotten the vinyl Steve and Kevin did earlier this year but he says they used the ORIGINAL tapes (hum and all) with no EQ to make it. Can't wait to hear it.

As for the SACD layer, it's just a clearer version of the redbook layer. I'd take the DCC over it every time.

 

Good plan. I have learned a bunch since I started coming here. You can't go wrong with the DCC Jazz discs performance or sound quality wise. I have been pleased with the recent Jazz (and CCR) APO SACD's as well.