Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part 1), Album By Album...

Interesting. So I was incorrect, they are not early fadeouts (relative to the non-MCA), but abrupt fadeouts then. I can see why so many have been fooled by this, including myself, those abrupt fades give the impression of being early. Nice work! Is this true of all of the tracks on the MCA Trespass or just Stagnation?

If so, it's definitely not fair to blame the MCA remaster for any early fadeouts. Though I wouldn't take issue with the decision to make that Stagnation fade smoother by starting it earlier (on the non-MCA).

Do you personally prefer the sound of the MCA? I did, last I listened. I was going to give it another listen, since Jeff Carney and Andreas said they don't think it sounds right to them. I'm not sure if I'll ever agree with them on that though, I like that clarity on the MCA. Personal preference perhaps, there is no awesome version of this thing that I know of.

 

I if may take a moment to repost my thoughts on Trespass MCA vs V/C; this is from an older thread started by forum member Opti. Controversial stuff ... disregard my comment about disagreeing with Jeff; since my old post, Jeff now agrees with me

Best Genesis on CD?
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=1815683

My comments still stand.

 

Yes, this is true of all six tracks on the MCA CD.

Me neither. It's a mastering engineer's call what to do with reverb tails at the end of tracks, and obviously the people who mastered the V/C and the DE opted for a more graceful approach. For all we know, the master tape itself may have the abrupt cutoffs the MCA CD has.

I just got the V/C a few days ago and haven't listened to all of it that closely yet. I've had the MCA for years and I'm just used to how it sounds. I have to do a lot more impartial, critical listening to decide on which I prefer. I think I've noticed the Dolby issues that Jamie Tate and Phil Elliott allude to, though.

By the way, I didn't go to any trouble to confirm this at all so don't quote me, but in case anyone needed any further reason to dislike the DE: I think at least a few tracks on it are out of phase.

 

Re: Trespass

Here are the closing seconds of "Stagnation", aligned as closely as possible:



The V/C fades out earliest of the three. The DE has the smoothest fade but still ends earlier than the MCA.

The MCA has less than half a second of silence after the reverb tail is cut off. The V/C has three seconds of silence at the end, and the DE has nearly that amount.

 

Re: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

I just got my Nimbus-mastered V/C, and both discs generate the same readings as your Japanese V/C. I also have the same Atco as the one above.

Moreover, I can confirm that both discs in the V/C are the same mastering as the Atco, but the indexing is different. Disc 1 of the Atco has to be bumped up by 0.2 dB to match the level of Disc 1 of the V/C. When this is done, and the samples aligned, both discs of the Atco cancel out with the V/C.

 

Good sleuthing! Now we know the Sanyo V/C = Nimbus V/C = DADC V/C = Atco (with 0.2 dB adjustment needed on Disc 1 ONLY). So, folks can simply take their pick.

 

Dave,

I just got an EMI Swindon pressing of this and it matches the Nimbus disc in total time. Anyway, out of curiousity, was the phase the same on the DE as the DADC and the Atlantic? I wanted to clarify that. I wonder what the heck happened to change that on the Nimbus? I suspect the EMI Swindon would also be the same as the Nimbus in this regard. I wonder which is correct?

 

The answer is yes, the phase was the same for the others, only the Nimbus was flipped. I suppose it could of been a hardware thing where a phase reversal switch was on when it was transferred. I'd like to assume the Nimbus is wrong because of this, but who can assume anything? Still, I think I will till I hear otherwise.

 

Re: Selling England by the Pound

So let me see if I'm following here: even if the phase on the Nimbus were reversed, it's still a different mastering from the DADC/Atlantic?

 

I got the the Nimbus Mastered And There Were Three... any reviews out there?

 

Correct.

But in comparing these discs I can tell you that we are getting into SUPER FINE territory here.

 

Agreed. I think all of the late 70's Genesis LP's sound flat compared to the CDs. The one exception being a Japanese import LP I have of "Duke" which is very nice.

I love my original US "Abacab" LP, which, IIRC may be a bit shorter than some of the previous records.

 

And this seems to have carried over the EMI Swindon pressing, because it has the eaxct same TT as the Nimbus.

 

It was dealt with sort of piecemeal some pages back... anyway, you have the "good" version, so worry no more about this particular title!

 

I now have four different ATTWT's, five if you count the sacd, but I don't. Until this thread, I always assumed there were just two masterings to choose from, DE or pre-DE.

The nice thing is that all these old pressings I've been buying for the most part I got really cheap!

 

I just saw this today. Nice visual- sometimes it does pay to look at waveforms!

 

And this is definitely good to know!

 

Okay, I know the DADC picture discs are pretty tough to come by, so here's one last chance for anybody who wants to compare, test, etc...

One minute samples:

Trespass - "Looking For Someone"(DADC):

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=4CC210077D0D7623

EAC Screenshot:

 

Nursery Cryme (DADC)

"Hogweed"

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=A3ED04085EE45C77


EAC Screenshot:

 

Foxtrot (DADC)

"Watcher"

http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=7353C8F340F8E8DE

EAC Screenshot:

 

Ha! I have those five too. The funny thing is, when this thread started, I told my housemate (who's into Genesis too, but mostly the Collins era, and certainly not to the obsessive extent I am), "I'm just gonna sit back and let these guys sort the different editions out, and then I'll get whichever they decide is best." Fast-forward four months later: he approaches me at my computer desk to ask me a question and sees four copies of ATTWT spread out in front of me. I think I heard him say, "What the...."

 

I have these now and I like the Foxtrot. I tried to fix that warbled note to no avail. I could fix the pitch change problem, but not without it being noticeable that a change had occurred so I thought it better undisturbed. Originally I thought I'd try fading in the DE just for a second, and was ready to add tape hiss as well so it sounded the same, but the DE was of course at a different speed, so that wasn't worth the effort. BTW to anybody new to this issue, I believe only on the DE is that tape problem "fixed" (though I still think I sense something off there on the DE as well) . Perhaps the only redeeming quality of that remaster, that and the full cover art.

I think the picture disc Nursery Cryme is the best I have too, though the only others I have are the original Atlantic and DE, maybe that's all there is, I forget now.

I've said this before but I was so stunned by it, I'll say it again. If anybody wants to know what is lying under those DE's that doesn't already know, especially for Foxtrot I imagine, really crank the volume on the last couple seconds of the DE Supper's Ready, you will hear the most horrid artifacts from the NR! I can't believe I used to listen to these things, must of been too wrapped up in the music to care. And a little ignorant as well no doubt.

 

The pitch change on the DE extends beyond the obvious "wow" portion. After the pitch correction at the point where the acoustic guitars start, the DE continues at a higher pitch (compared to a pre-DE) until the electric guitars and drums come in. So, to make a "corrected" version, you'd either have to edit in that whole segue before "Apocalypse in 9/8" or attempt your own pitch correction on the pre-DE. Too much trouble for a very minor problem, if you ask me.

I only have the DADC picture disc, and I'm willing to take you guys' word for it that it's the best-sounding.

What he said.

 

By the way, a much easier editing hack is for the first track of Lamb. On the pre-DEs, the piano fades in a few seconds later compared to the DE. With a very simple edit, you can patch together the first few seconds of the DE and the rest of the pre-DE (some very slight level matching is needed).

 

At the very beginning of the allbum you mean? A whole 3 seconds? I'm not being sarcastic, that is a lot!