Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part 1), Album By Album...

Yeah, I was thinking just that earlier. I think you'll find that most if not all CDs that have been mastered more than once from analogue tape will have timing discrepancies like that. All we can reasonably expect is for the difference to be minimal.

I only have the Atlantic too, and I'm content with it. If I ever spot either of the V/C editions for a good price, I'll grab it, but meanwhile I'm not actively searching for any other edition of SE anymore.

If I remember correctly, Jeff prefers the V/C to the Atco. Jamie has the Atco and hasn't heard the V/C. I have an Atco on the way and would like to find a V/C to do my own comparison.

 

WRT to the Nimbus of SEBTP being out of phase in both channels how could this be corrected? Would one want to invert the waves?

(am I out of my league here?)

In other words...would some doctoring make this all better?

 

What about WG Vertigo? That's the only version I have.

 

Are you talking about Abacab on Vertigo? It's the same as the WG Target pressing. Identical, physically.

 

Yes, I was referring to Abacab.

 

Genesis S/T is the last good Genesis album, IMO. I consider Abacab and S/T to be sister releases and almost identical in style and quality.

What do you guys think is the best cd version of S/T?

 

I haven't done a head to head S/T Genesis comparison in awhile, but I still have the result of, which what I can remember at the time, Vertigo WG, US Atlantic, and the Virgin/Charisma. The Nimbus V/C is the one I preferred.

 

Get the V/C of the Lamb. It beats the Atco, which is a totally different mastering. I didn't notice the disc 1 disc 2 thing that has been mentioned. When I had them both I A/Bd disc 1, and the Atco was good but clearly EQd a bit. The V/C was the winner to my ears.

 

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2669344&postcount=304

 

I've recently discovered my West German Vertigo Genesis s/t uses preemphasis (set in the subchannels, not in the TOC). Are there any other Genesis CDs like that??

Martin

 

What does that mean when playing in a cd player?

 

A CD Player detects the emphasis flag, as it should. The problem is, that programs like EAC do not detect it, so a copy loses that information. A lot of early CDs with preemphasis behave that way...
It was discussed here:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=88541&highlight=eac+preemphasis

Martin

 

No, it's just relative to the other cds, they're just "flipped". The channels aren't out of phase with each other (L&R), I hope not anyway!

Ignore my obsessing, it was just a fascinating footnote.

 

I'll seek it out. I've come this far...

 

Yeah, sometimes it's much worse than that. I remember on Going for The One, I think it was the Marino compared to the Rhino or something like that. Anyway, one of them was waaaaay slower, to the point that I wondered how fast Steve Howe actually did play those solos!

 

That was me: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2655155&postcount=251

I don't think anyone has posted the EAC data for a Nimbus V/C nor the DADC picture disc to see whether they differ from my Sanyo V/C copy.

 

I'll dig out my V/C LLDOB and do an EAC check on it, possibly later on today.

 

I have been wading through this thread for a while now and am very suprised to find no mention of the 32VD Japanese first pressings.

 

See this post. I can provide more info if you need it. I have the Austria picture disc.

Lamb Info

 

Let me throw in some more info on Selling England. Here is the log for the Japanese press V/C VJD-28025 released in 1988. It is not a black triangle and does not have a cropped cover. The peak levels are different from the others I've seen here. If there is a demand for samples, I can do that.

EAC extraction logfile from 15. May 2007, 17:22 for CD
Genesis / Selling England By The Pound

Used drive : _NEC DVD_RW ND-3550A Adapter: 1 ID: 0
Read mode : Secure with NO C2, accurate stream, disable cache
Read offset correction : 48
Overread into Lead-In and Lead-Out : No

Used output format : C:\Program Files\FLAC\flac.exe (User Defined Encoder)
192 kBit/s
Additional command line options : -V -8 -T "artist=%a" -T "title=%t" -T "album=%g" -T "date=%y" -T "tracknumber=%n" -T "genre=%m" %s

Other options :
Fill up missing offset samples with silence : Yes
Delete leading and trailing silent blocks : No
Native Win32 interface for Win NT & 2000


Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\selling england japan\01 - Dancing With The Moonlit Knight.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.49

Peak level 77.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CF5065DC
Copy CRC CF5065DC
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\selling england japan\02 - I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe).wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:03.00

Peak level 71.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1455D7D8
Copy CRC 1455D7D8
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\selling england japan\03 - Firth of Fifth.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.10

Peak level 78.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 988D9732
Copy CRC 988D9732
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\selling england japan\04 - More Fool Me.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.53

Peak level 52.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 76DFB616
Copy CRC 76DFB616
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\selling england japan\05 - The Battle of Epping Forest.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:02.60

Peak level 74.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC CF41CF9E
Copy CRC CF41CF9E
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\selling england japan\06 - After The Ordeal.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:01.53

Peak level 53.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 7800F0F6
Copy CRC 7800F0F6
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\selling england japan\07 - The Cinema Show.wav

Pre-gap length 0:00:05.53

Peak level 74.9 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC FCCDD15F
Copy CRC FCCDD15F
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\Owner\My Documents\selling england japan\08 - Aisle of Plenty.wav

Peak level 58.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E127E0D8
Copy CRC E127E0D8
Copy OK

No errors occured


End of status report

 

I believe the Atlantic WG Targets of ATTWT and Abacab have pre-emphasis, as well.

 

Which confirms what family and friends have known for ages: my brain has turned to mush!

 

I listened some more to the Nimbus and the DADC of Selling England and I think the DADC seems slightly better. Maybe it has to do with the phase reversal on the Nimbus? The channels are the same but I can sort of hear this difference. At least, I think I can. These two are pretty similar.

 

Try standing on your head

I'm now waiting for a reasonably cheap V/C of Lamb to show up somewhere. When this is all said and done, I'm going to have quite a few Genesis CDs to get rid of.

 

Re: Trespass

Sorry, but I just couldn't let this one rest; something about this "quick fades" business kept bugging me. Last night I did some very careful listening to the closing seconds of "Stagnation" on the MCA, the V/C picture disc and the DE. Guess what: the decay of the final chord on the MCA is abruptly cut off, but there is more of it on the MCA than on the V/C or the DE!

The MCA lets the chord go on for a bit longer and cuts it off abruptly just before (I presume) the tape hiss gets really noticeable. On the V/C and DE, it starts fading out as soon as the last chord is struck, and at the point where there is still a faint reverberation on the MCA, the V/C and the DE already have complete silence.

The V/C and DE add a few more seconds of silence at the end of the track than the MCA, which is why the latter gives you that feeling of being "thrown into" the next track.

Waveforms confirm all this.

This has nothing to do with sound quality; all I'm trying to prove here is that not all the original MCA CDs have those "early fadeouts" that seem to be so widely reported (and were a reason for some to dismiss the MCA CD outright). It seems that there are at least two different masterings of this album on MCA. Either that, or this was the result of someone mishearing something and then having his comments repeated all over the Web as if it were gospel (not the first time that sort of thing ever happened).