Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part 1), Album By Album...

No, they are the same. Here are the details:

V/C - CGSCD 1 - discs made in Japan by Sanyo - no barcode - 4-page booklet

Disc 1 - matrix = CGSCD1-1 60416L MANUFACTURED BY SANYO JAPAN

EAC levels: 98.1 % - 85.5 % - 12.0 % - 62.7 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 62.5 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 %


Disc 2 - matrix = CGSCD1-2 60417N MANUFACTURED BY SANYO JAPAN

EAC levels: 81.1 % - 74.7 % - 65.1 % - 69.3 % - 68.4 % - 47.9 % - 79.4 % - 16.2 % - 78.0 % - 84.0 % - 82.9 % - 87.6 %


Atco - 401-2 - discs made in US by WEA Manufacturing Inc. - 8-page booklet containing original album art and inner sleeves

Disc 1 - matrix = 401-2.1 SRC-02

EAC levels: 95.9 % - 83.6 % - 11.7 % - 61.3 % - 97.7 % - 97.7 % - 97.7 % - 61.1 % - 97.7 % - 97.7 % - 97.7 %


Disc 2 - matrix = 401-2.2 SRC-02

EAC levels: 81.1 % - 74.7 % - 65.1 % - 69.3 % - 68.4 % - 47.9 % - 79.4 % - 16.2 % - 78.0 % - 84.0 % - 82.9 % - 87.6 %



You'll notice that the Disc 2 EAC levels are identical, whereas the Disc 1s differ slightly. It is possible that WEA used the same digital master and just dropped it slightly in level.

If anyone wants to start an EAC Levels album-by-album thread or FAQ, I'll be happy to supply details of the pressings I have.

 

I have a V/C Nimbus pressing of "Trespass" as well as the V/C picture disc pressed by DADC Austria. Are there any differences between these two?

Thanks!

 

My copies both have the following EAC levels: 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 54.8 % - 100.0 %

So I'd say my Nimbus and DADC versions, at least, are clones.

 

Target Abacab:

Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track01.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 21600C04
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track02.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC FF4047F4
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track03.wav

Peak level 93.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E7F6CE88
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track04.wav

Peak level 94.1 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC B0A50510
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track05.wav

Peak level 100.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 08460CAA
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track06.wav

Peak level 95.6 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 1553DBFD
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track07.wav

Peak level 68.3 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 8C780D4A
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track08.wav

Peak level 98.8 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC F34A9BCB
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track09.wav

Peak level 98.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E715C3F8
Copy OK

No errors occured

Atlantic Abacab (matrix: 3 19313-2 SRC-03)

Track 1
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track01.wav

Peak level 95.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC D3162B6B
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track02.wav

Peak level 95.5 %
Track quality 99.9 %
Test CRC AA3292FD
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track03.wav

Peak level 90.9 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 387C8D22
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track04.wav

Peak level 92.0 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 874A9A7B
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track05.wav

Peak level 95.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC C5553558
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track06.wav

Peak level 93.4 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 6BF44DB8
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track07.wav

Peak level 66.7 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC 6B2D69C7
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track08.wav

Peak level 95.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC E80DC29B
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename C:\Documents and Settings\1\My Documents\My Music\Track09.wav

Peak level 95.5 %
Track quality 100.0 %
Test CRC AFA0737B
Copy OK

 

Ok, here are the CDs I need to get, and from what I can gather, their best versions:

Genesis-...And Then There Were Three (Atlantic 19173-2)
Genesis-Duke (Original US)
Genesis-Foxtrot (post-1990 Virgin/Charisma)
Genesis-Nursery Cryme (orig. Virgin/Charisma)
Genesis-Seconds Out (orig. Atlantic)
Genesis-Selling England By the Pound (orig. Virgin/Charisma or Atlantic)
Genesis-Three Sides Live (Atlantic, Barry?)
Genesis-Trespass (orig. Virgin/Charisma)
Genesis-Trick of the Tail (Diament, ATCO 38101-2 or orig. Virgin/Charisma)
Genesis-Wind and Wuthering (Definitive Edition)

Am I right?

 

For 3SL, the original WG Vertigo is the same as the US Atlantic. I would also suspect that the V/C of Seconds Out would be the same as the Atlantic.

And for Lamb, you need the V/C.

 

Thanks.

What about Japanese pressings? What label should I be looking for?

 

There is no evidence to support seeking out Japanese pressings. They'll more than likely just be more expensive.

 

Makes me glad that I kept all my vinyl, with the gatefold sleeves and memories. And even whilst "up-grading", kept the original release cds, VHS tapes yet to officially "up-grade" to DVD, the 45's from around the world and so on. Takes up a lot of room, but well worth it.

 

Hmmm! Interesting. Your second disc matches my "MADE IN U.S.A. BY WEA MANUFACTURING INC." copy. The cat. no. is 19313-2 (800044-2) and the matrix = 3 19313-2 SRC-03. No surprises there, as our discs are clearly clones.

However, I also have a "MANUFACTURED BY JVC DISC AMERICA CO. MADE IN U.S.A." copy, cat. no. = 19313-2 (800044-2), matrix = 19313-2-1T1 1 (not too sure about the last two numbers, they are etched into the disc and are smaller than the rest of the matrix!) with the following EAC levels:

100.0 % - 100.0 % - 95.1 % - 96.3 % - 100.0 % - 97.8 % - 69.8 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 %

I've never compared the two discs, as I always assumed they were the same. I'll try to find the time to listen and view waveforms to see if one is a level-shifted version of the other, or whether they are distinct masterings.

Here are the EAC levels for my GECD 2001/00777 7 86357 2 7 copy which was made in Holland.

Disc 1 - cat. no. = GECD 2001/00777 7 86358 2 6 - matrix = 786358 2 @ 3 (empty space) 2-1-4-NL

100.0 % - 82.8 % - 100.0 % - 99.6 % - 100.0 % - 94.0 % - 97.6 % - 92.0 %

Disc 2 - cat. no. = GECD 2001/00777 7 86359 2 5 - matrix = 786359 2 @ 3 (empty space) 1-1-9-NL

100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 % - 100.0 %

I'm afraid I don't have an Atlantic Seconds Out nor V/C Abacab to complete the comparisons.

 

What if I run across one for cheap?

 

You might want to look into the V/C of And Then There Were Three... I remember it being quite a bit better than the Atlantic CD.

 

I thought the Def. Ed. of ATTWT was the relative best?

 

It's a matter of taste. The DE 'sounds' best, because where it was lacking, EQ was applied in the mastering. It's not bad, but I loved the V/C when I had one.

 

The grab it, as long as it was pressed in 1993 or before. Anything from 1994 on uses the DE mastering.

 

I just got a target and it sounds like I remember this album sounding. I don't have the DE to compare, but this sounds pretty good. This album is a mess in spots in the first place.

 

Mind you, I believe the WG Target and subsequent Atlantic CD's of ATTWT made in the US are different from each other.

 

Does your target hit 100% peak levels? Mine does. Just curious because Jamie says his target is 2dB quieter than the Atlantic.

 

Any idea how different?

 

I guess I'm going to have to figure this one out.


The Target CD of ATTWT is really the 800-series Polygram/Vertigo/Charisma pressing with a green Atlantic label. I think the Nimbus UK is a different mastering than this, and the Atlantic U.S. is YET another mastering.(I think). Pretty complicated.

If Jamie's target is different than *other* targets, we have more than one more mastering of these, as well. I remember buying one in a long box as late as 1988, so maybe this album stayed manufactured in WG longer than the others.

Many years ago,(1990) I compared the V/C Nimbus with the U.S Atlantic, and the V/C sounded like a much better mastering from an earlier generation tape. It had better bottom and top end, like the V/C Trick Of The Tail. Both V/C's had louder peak levels than the Atlantic pressings as well(no that this is a factor for sound quality).

 

Here are the EAC levels for my copies of ATTWT if it helps anyone.

V/C - CDSCD 4010 - Made in the UK - matrix = CDSCD 4010 . MASTERED BY NIMBUS

95.2 % - 73.9 % - 100.0 % - 77.7 % - 72.9 % - 100.0 % - 80.5 % - 80.8 % - 67.9 % - 88.8 % - 68.0 %


Atlantic - 19173-2 - Made in U.S.A. by WEA Manuf. Inc. - matrix = 3 19173-2 SRC+04 M1S12

73.6 % - 79.4 % - 79.4 % - 79.4 % - 79.4 % - 79.4 % - 79.4 % - 79.4 % - 79.4 % - 79.4 % - 79.0 %

 

Selling England by The Pound worked on by this Hoffman character would be a good time.

 

My West German target ATTWT:

92.3% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 100% - 99.9% - 100% - 99.7%

Based on these figures, it looks like it's the US Atlantic that's lowered 2 dB compared to the WG target.

 

Do they sound identical? I kinda figured it was the other way around with this one.

 

I don't know because I don't have the US Atlantic.