!!!! I would never recommend that set to anyone. It's awful. Hopefully, with time, it will be spoken of with the same amount of confusion and disgust as we do things like the horrible remixed Monkees, Byrds, Richie Valens and Turtles with all the big 80s reverb on them. There are real problems with the set because of the bad remixes. There's no way around it, the remixes are are just not as good as what had already been done. They're not very good at all. It's like getting a nice steak but because the chef liked salt he pured too much over the top to make the whole thing inedible.
I also found the Platinum Collection a huge letdown with the exception of some of the Gabriel era stuff. The remixes just killed so much warmth, and suffered from the odd bit of sloppiness. To a new fan I'd recommend: 1. Selling England 2. The Lamb 3. Trick 4. Duke ...and then if you had the extra dough Foxtrot and Steve Hackett's Voyage of The Acolyte.
Abacab I prefer Selling England, The Lamb and Foxtrot etc.. but the best engineered Genesis album in my opinion ( I wonder what Steve thinks) would have to be Abacab or We Can't Dance. I'm sure Congo is a sonic wonder but who would care? Abacab has a warm sound with an almost vinyl like quality-not a tube like sound, but warm..you know. Hugh Padgam engineered that one I think. Trick Of The Tail also sounds pretty damn good.
I have the UK Trespass LP. The matrix number CAS 1020 A-2U/B-3U. Today I compared this pressing to the MCA I bought on Jeff's recommendation. I can't believe how much better the MCA is sounding compared to the LP. The LP certainly ain't a first pressing but the differences is hard to believe. The LP sounds very much like Jeff's description of the V/C CD; "The V/C sounds under water, behind a building and four blocks down the street". If there is some Dolby tape issues included I believe it goes way back to the early seventies.
Sonically, I think Trick of The Tail, Duke, and We Can't Dance among my favorites. As far as the actual music goes, my favorites are (in no particular order): Trick of The Tail, Duke, Selling England..., The Lamb Lies Down..., and Genesis. Dave
I got my copies of the UK Virgin Charisma CDs of Trespass and Selling England yesterday (cropped covers). ICK! Not good. Heavy, pumping analog noise reduction. This Trespass is almost as bad and muffled as the Definitive remaster.
My choices for the best of 'em all(sound quality) 1. Trespass(MCA) 2. Nursery Cryme(Charisma) 3. Foxtrot(Charisma) 4. Live(Charisma) 5. Selling England(Charisma or Atlantic original) 5. Lamb Lies Down(DE) 6. Trick Of The Tail(Charisma) 7. Wind And Wuthering(Charisma) 8. And then there were three(DE) 9. Duke(Atlantic US) 10. Abacab(Atlantic US) 11. Genesis(Atlantic US)
Jamie didn't you already own the Charisma CD of Trespass? I couldn't hear any noise reduction on the Chrarisma UK of Selling England....this is confusing....
No, I had the MCA CD, "Definitive" remaster CD, ABC vinyl and UK vinyl. I was curious about the UK CD and it was cheap. These two CDs sound like the DBX or Dolby is working too hard. During the quiet passages things get muffled and the dynamics are a bit exagerated by the decoding. They're not harsh at all and are soothing but they're not right. I have yet to hear the US unremastered CD of Selling England but the UK vinyl sounds nice and was what I compared it to.
During my listening session today I also compared the SEBTP Mastered by Nimbus CD to a "Mad hatter" Charisma UK LP and a "blue label" Charisma UK LP. To me all of these masterings practically sounds the same. IMO they all sounds nice and the CD leaves nothing to be desired. This is the EAC peak values for the Nimbus: Maybe there is more than one V/C mastering. Track 1 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Selling England By The Pound Nimbus\Genesis-Selling England By The Pound-(01)Dancing With The Moonlight Knight.wav Peak level 96.2 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC A13750F2 Copy OK Track 2 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Selling England By The Pound Nimbus\Genesis-Selling England By The Pound-(02)I Know What I Like (In Your Wardrobe).wav Peak level 93.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC 9FEAABB1 Copy OK Track 3 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Selling England By The Pound Nimbus\Genesis-Selling England By The Pound-(03)Firth Of Fifth.wav Peak level 98.9 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC 95794D24 Copy OK Track 4 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Selling England By The Pound Nimbus\Genesis-Selling England By The Pound-(04)More Fool Me.wav Peak level 61.3 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC 877D2825 Copy OK Track 5 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Selling England By The Pound Nimbus\Genesis-Selling England By The Pound-(05)The Battle Of Epping Forest.wav Peak level 91.6 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC 07003532 Copy OK Track 6 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Selling England By The Pound Nimbus\Genesis-Selling England By The Pound-(06)After The Ordeal.wav Peak level 58.2 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC 5D7D9221 Copy OK Track 7 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Selling England By The Pound Nimbus\Genesis-Selling England By The Pound-(07)The Cinema Show.wav Peak level 90.4 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC D7CF891E Copy OK Track 8 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Selling England By The Pound Nimbus\Genesis-Selling England By The Pound-(08)Aisle Of Plenty.wav Peak level 64.6 % Track quality 99.7 % Copy CRC ACB26282 Copy OK
Jaime, The unremastered Atlantic of Selling England is exactly the same as the Virgin/Charisma with the chopped cover. Both are better than the DE, IMO. I will say that they have an extraordinarily low level of hiss for a 1973 recording, but probably no different to a properly decoded Dark Side. My guess is that that album was recorded in Dolby A, originally. Trepsass: Forget it. I recently bought the old V/C to compare again and the MCA CD just wipes the floor with it. The V/C sounds similar to a Japanese vinyl I have from around the early 80s. My guess is that at some point the tapes in England were damaged or lost and replaced by something inferior. Whatever was sent to ABC in 1974 (the year they licensed Trespass for release in the US) and subsequently used for the CD pressing is better than whatever was in England when the V/C CD was made.
Ok Jeff Where the MCA Trespass is concerend, I must be the only one who openly disagrees with Jamie, Jeff, etc. I've now heard the MCA in full; and my overall gut feeling prompted by Jamie's MP3 clips has only been reinforced. I still think that, for the most part, the MCA has a Dolby problem that is the opposite to the Dolby problem some folk think the Virgin/Charisma has! I do agree where the first track is concerned. The vocals definately are being muted by Dolby. But everything else on the V/C sounds great to me. On the MCA it seems to be as though Dolby isn't working hard enough to clamp down the hiss. The upper mid frequencies sound as though they are compressed. Spaces and ambience seem to be exagerated. There's a hell of a lot of "air" on the MCA, and I think most folk here are enjoying this - I'm not, unfortunately. And what about those abrupt cuts at the end of each song? I'm suspicious of those at best... Dusk gives you the best example: check out the ensemble vocals in the choruses, especially the reverb. On the V/C, these sound stunning. The MCA to me seems to have that signature "sizzle" that you get with improperly decoded stuff, which sounds the same regardless of what the music is. The Knife has a more apparent dynamic range on the V/C; on the MCA, when you expect things to come crashing in, it just sounds squashed. It's a dull blade (ba dum). I deleted my post originally because I was waiting for someone to ask me if I've ever operated a Dolby A unit. I have to admit - no, whereas Jamie doubtless has. Saying that though, I did record and mix music for nine years. If I was to have been the mix engineer on Trespass, I would have been proud of myself if the acoustic guitars, vocals, reverb etc sound the way they do on the V/C. I wouldn't have a CLUE how to get the sound on the MCA ... except with a multiband compressor? In fact, I'll stick my neck out and say "Dusk" on the V/C is hifi demo material. There.
I have switched back and forth between the MCA and Virgin/Charisma Trespass CDs many times, and I can't really make sense of what I am hearing. The MCA is unnaturally airy and has seemingly an exaggerated amount of reverb. The Virgin/Charisma is unnaturally dull, but I don't hear any pumping. I fully agree with Phil about Dusk: That song sounds wonderful on the V/C. Looking For Someone is the one song where I would believe that (analog) noise reduction was applied. But the piano intro to Visions Of Angels sounds more like a real life piano on the V/C than on the MCA. I wish Steve would listen to both and give us his analysis. Dusk - MCA - Sample: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=9DFD3098273E88B9 Dusk - Virgin Charisma - Sample: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=F537AE5A0D698BA0 Looking For Someone - MCA - Sample: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=899E5ED94660710E Looking For Someone - Virgin Charisma - Sample: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=CDF137A349ED29AB Visions Of Angles - MCA - Sample: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=FFC1E15C72F4BCA7 Visions Of Angles - Virgin Charisma - Sample: http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=460510284340D80C
It's interesting to read differing opinions on this. While there are certain elements of the MCA I like, it's this artifact that Phil describes which I find a bit unpleasant. Once you hear it in the acoustic guitars and vocals, you hear it throughout the entire album, and it sounds like a fuse being lit that is burning off from beginning to the end (until the track is chopped, that is). I already feel a sinus headache coming on just thinking about it. I agree...beautiful track.
My V/C SEBTP CD has the exact same EAC peak levels as yours. It says "VIRGIN MEGASTORE" and "MASTERED BY NIMBUS" in the inner ring. I think it sounds excellent and is in no way comparable to the rather muffled V/C Trespass.
Andreas This is the EAC peak values from my V/C Foxtrot Manufactured in Holland. Can you please verify if this is the same as the "Mastered by Nimbus" UK disc? I am not very found of this version, so I kind of hope there is something better out there. Specially the track "Horizon's" seems goosed up. Thank you! Track 1 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Foxtrot original Holland\Genesis-Foxtrot-(01)Watcher Of The Skies.wav Peak level 99.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC 542A6708 Copy OK Track 2 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Foxtrot original Holland\Genesis-Foxtrot-(02)Time Table.wav Peak level 90.5 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC 102914B6 Copy OK Track 3 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Foxtrot original Holland\Genesis-Foxtrot-(03)Get 'Em Out By Friday.wav Peak level 98.4 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC C667123D Copy OK Track 4 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Foxtrot original Holland\Genesis-Foxtrot-(04)Can-Utility And The Coastliners.wav Peak level 100.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC 882A5B84 Copy OK Track 5 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Foxtrot original Holland\Genesis-Foxtrot-(05)Horizons.wav Peak level 100.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC C5104D03 Copy OK Track 6 Filename I:\G\Genesis\Foxtrot original Holland\Genesis-Foxtrot-(06)Supper's Ready.wav Peak level 100.0 % Track quality 100.0 % Copy CRC AFE3F62A Copy OK
I don't have the "Mastered By Nimbus" CD anymore, but Phil should be able to check it out; he has and prefers the Nimbus CD. My preferred CD version is: CASCD 1058, inner ring:"Virgin Megastore @2", and has the following EAC peak levels: Track 1 Peak level 83.9 % Track 2 Peak level 79.9 % Track 3 Peak level 73.8 % Track 4 Peak level 96.3 % Track 5 Peak level 56.1 % Track 6 Peak level 92.9 %
Thank you very much! Perfect news. Those peak levels seems a lot more to my likings. I will track down both the "Nimbus" and the "Virgin Megastore @2". By the way; where are those "Virgin Megastore" discs made? I have yet to see one.
Phil, You may indeed be onto something here, but I need to compare the two more thoroughly to determine my opinion. I will say that the MCA is hissy beyond hissy, which may indicate that Dolby wasn't decoded properly. A similar thing occurs on the US Capitol of Dark Side and I think it was you who convinced me that this wasn't right. I have come to agree after getting the blackfaced Harvest there and I may come to agree here... The weird thing about the MCA is that it doesn't exhibit characteristics like sizzly, crispy hi-hat, things that would indicate an improper amount of treble. I don't ****ing know. This may be one of those titles that I have to have two versions of and really just listen to in their entirety while trying to just enjoy the music. Maybe this way a favorite would become more clear. Maybe not.
Jeff, if Dolby isn't setup right, and treble is excessive, it can be tamed with EQ. The "compressed air" effect will still be there though. Saying that, it's looking as though the mix of Trespass isn't all treble to begin with. This is probably why you don't have crispy hi-hat.
Well, the thing is that not all of Virgin/Charisma's tapes are right. I recently got the old V/C of Wind and Wuthering, hoping that it would beat the terrible US Atco. No luck, it was the same. Absolutely no bottom end. I picked up and= old Atco LP of W&W to compare and see if somehow my mind had remembered bottom end where there wasn't any, or maybe the DE was stuck in my head? Nope. The Atco LP was stomping! Great bottom end. The Atco and V/C CDs were clearly made from inferior tapes, probably tapes EQd for vinyl cutting.
There is! Here's my info (including total and track times): Selling England (Compact Price Picture Disc) Austria DADC (53:48.00) Track 1 - Peak level 99.5 % - 8:05.07 Track 2 - Peak level 96.5 % - 4:08.10 Track 3 - Peak level 97.7 % - 9:37.73 Track 4 - Peak level 62.4 % - 3:12.47 Track 5 - Peak level 78.2 % - 11:48.43 Track 6 - Peak level 53.9 % - 4:16.40 Track 7 - Peak Level 75.4 % - 11:03.55 Track 8 - Peak level 61.1 % - 1:35.25 Which exactly matches my UK made Nimbus pressing: Foxtrot (Compact Price) UK Nimbus (51:20.00) Track 1 - Peak level 99.0 % - 7:24.05 Track 2 - Peak level 90.5 % - 4:48.15 Track 3 - Peak level 98.4 % - 8:38.10 Track 4 - Peak level 100.0 % - 5:47.45 Track 5 - Peak level 100.0 % - 1:43.62 Track 6 - Peak level 100.0 % - 22:58.13 However, Andreas reports: which is similar, but not identical to my US WEA pressing: Foxtrot US WEA (51:05.15) Track 1 - Peak level 87.5 % - 7:22.17 Track 2 - Peak level 85.1 % - 4:47.13 Track 3 - Peak level 91.7 % - 8:36.22 Track 4 - Peak level 100.0 % - 5:45.43 Track 5 - Peak level 85.8 % - 1:43.35 Track 6 - Peak level 100.0 % - 22:50.35 For a giggle, I also checked my two European copies of Trespass (I didn't do the MCA as we know that is a very different mastering), and this is what I found: Trespass UK Nimbus (42:40.07) Track 1 - Peak level 100.0 % - 7:05.70 Track 2 - Peak level 100.0 % - 6:43.52 Track 3 - Peak level 100.0 % - 6:51.60 Track 4 - Peak level 100.0 % - 8:50.28 Track 5 - Peak level 54.8 % - 4:12.35 Track 6 - Peak level 100.0 % - 8:55.62 Trespass (Picture Disc) Austria DADC (42:40.08) Track 1 - Peak level 100.0 % - 7:05.70 Track 2 - Peak level 100.0 % - 6:43.53 Track 3 - Peak level 100.0 % - 6:51.60 Track 4 - Peak level 100.0 % - 8:50.27 Track 5 - Peak level 54.8 % - 4:12.35 Track 6 - Peak level 100.0 % - 8:55.63 So, in this final case, at least, the Nimbus and DADC pressings are the same. Based on discs I have, and from what I have read here, there appear to be the following variants: DADC, Austria Sonopress, Germany (Jeff had this, I believe?) Nimbus, Holland Sanyo, Japan Victor Company of Japan, Japan EMI Swindon, UK Nimbus, UK PDO, UK JVC, USA WEA, USA So, just how many masterings of each title are there?
