Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part 1), Album By Album...

Now I remember, yes there was pitch difference, beyond the tape speed difference, or at least I think. At any rate I did attempt my own pitch correction like you suggest, and it worked, but I couldn't manage to get a clean fade from the pitch correction to the original without a noticeable phase problem occuring. I finally decided like you say, it was too minor to worry about and dropped it!

Besides, now that I think about it somebody, maybe Jamie, said that the original vinyl had the same "problem" anyway.

 

Re: The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway

Yes, the opening seconds of the title song. I don't remember exactly how long, but it's up to a point before the piano finishes fading in. Yes, it's a long enough portion, but it's at a relatively low volume; low enough that at a normal playback level the lack of hiss on the DE wouldn't be obvious in an edit unless you're really listening for it.

Re: Foxtrot

My first copy of Foxtrot ever was an Italian cassette from the '80s. It definitely had that wow. I got so used to it that when I heard the DE the fix sounded wrong.

 

I'll be fixing that.

How'd it sound? I bet I'd rather listen to that cassette than the cd DE.

 

It sounded very good; much better than most US-made cassettes from that same time period. And yeah, it easily beats the Foxtrot DE (which is the second-worst DE in my opinion, after Trespass).

 

Ttbomk, no differences have been discovered in UK pressings or NC, pre-DE, of course. But the sample above will enable someone with a Nimbus or other pressing to compare.

The original Atlantic you have is a coaster, I'm afriad. Harsh top end boost.

 

Re: Nursery Cryme

This explains why I thought the DE was such an improvement....

....until I got a DADC V/C.....WOW.

 

Sorry to threadcrap, but this IS a Genesis thread....

Gabble Ratchet, the Genesis tribute in which I play keyboards, is playing tomorrow night at Paladino's in Tarzana CA. If any of you SoCal folks want to come check us out we play at 8 PM, for 90 minutes......we're doing music from 1971-1981.

Now back to your regularly scheduled comparisons!


--Matt

 

It sure beats the DE though. This was one of the first instances where I questioned the superiority of remasters. I was so jazzed to have Nursery Cryme with all the original artwork in the booklet, but then I put in the cd. It sounded terrible compared to my orignal Atlantic! I thought I had a bad disc. I actually considered that maybe my ears weren't good enough to appreciate the DE's! The no-noise ruined them.

I do have the DADC picture disc, but have yet to listen to it.

 

I have the Austrian picture disc set for the first three albums from 1990. I compared them to everything else, and never had to change from these. Now to find a V/C Abacab.

Just an FYI, The blue-faced WG ATTWT that has shown up in the classifieds is the same disc as the Atlantic Target. The Later V/C's are much different(if you hadn't known this already).

 

Yeah, I've got a few coasters now. I'd still take it over the DE though, with a little eq. Fortunately I don't have to worry about it.

 

If it's any condolence, I have the original Atlantic of Nursery Cryme too and think it sounds fine. It had sure better, since it's one of the few titles I own in its non-DE incarnation.

Frankly, the whole discussion (which I've followed incrementally all along) is starting to wear me out. I think part of the reason is because we aren't necessarily comparing good vs. bad versions; we're comparing OK vs. good, or OK vs. good vs. better-but-hard-to-find, or bad vs. almost-but-not-quite-as-bad, or good-in-some-ways-and-bad-in-others vs. bad-in-some-ways-and-good-in-others for that matter.

If anyone's ready to condense the last 460 posts into a handy field guide at this point, though, be my guest!

 

Thankfully, I don't need 6 ATTWT's. You know I haven't dismissed that WG/Target yet. It is different than the V/C, no doubt about it, but in a way I like the forwardness of it. It really rocks out of my speakers. I have to listen to those two more...The V/C has more high treble boost, and it seems a bit more smiley faced, not in a bad way, just different. It lends itself well to some parts, but others I prefer the WG/Target. I'd kind of like to stand somewhere in between the two!

 

I think at some point soon that is a great idea. Trying to figure all of these pages out must be difficult for somebody just joining in. Basically Jeff has had it figured out with his list, I think some adjustments have been made to that, and with a few comments I think you'd have your guide!

 

From Genesis to Revelation

As previously verified by other forum members, the Disky CD of From Genesis to Revelation uses the same Steve Hoffman mastering as the DCC CD.* What makes the Disky interesting is the addition of two demo tracks, "Image Blown Out" and "She's So Beautiful".

"She's So Beautiful" on the Disky CD turns out to be the same recording as "She Is Beautiful" on the Archive 1967–75 box set. Judging from the sound quality, the Disky version is from an inferior tape compared to the Archive version. Also, assuming that the Archive version is at the correct speed, the Disky version is about 1% fast.

The Disky "Image Blown Out" is a completely different recording from the one found on Archive and (as far as I know) is not available on any other CD or LP. The easiest way to distinguish this version is that it has no drums. This track sounds like it's taken from the same tape as "She's So Beautiful", which is borne out by its being slightly higher in pitch than the Archive version.

Both of these tracks are mono, but the left and right channels are a few samples out of synch with each other. To fix "Image Blown Out", take one channel (I chose the left one) and slow it down by 1%. ("She Is Beautiful" on Archive is clearly superior to the Disky version, so I wouldn't bother fixing the latter.)

* Compared to the DCC, the first 17 tracks of the Disky CD are 0.5 dB louder and have different indexing, and both channels are inverted. Otherwise, they are identical.

 

I should clarify that "inverted" means in terms of phase, not that left and right are the wrong way around.

 

From Genesis to Revelation

Well, this is getting really interesting...

It turns out the 2005 two-CD Edsel set also contains the Steve Hoffman mastering of FGTR. Or something based on it, anyway.

The 17 album and single tracks on Edsel synch perfectly with the DCC tracks. However, the Edsel tracks (like the Disky CD) are differently indexed and slightly louder.

The rest of the Edsel tracks synch perfectly with the equivalent tracks on Archive 1967–75. Again, the volume on the Edsel tracks has been raised very slightly.

I suspect that the Edsel reissue was assembled from other CDs: the DCC or Disky CD for the album and single tracks, and Archive for the demos.

 

You got to wonder how things like this happen!

I don't even remember what version of this I used to own, I sold it years ago. Do you have a preference of all of the ones you've heard?

 

Just go back to the first few pages of this thread for this kind of info. No need to page through 500 posts. We're into what might be called "silly" territory now, which I would suspect is only going to appeal to hardcore fans.

 

I can't really tell a difference between the Disky and the DCC from listening. To be honest, I didn't listen closely to the Edsel after I found out it was derived from Steve's mastering, because those waveforms look suspicious to me. I think they may have taken the DCC CD and re-EQ'd it.

So yeah, the DCC hands down so far. The Disky is a very good alternative, especially since you get an extra demo track.

I'm just awaiting shipment of the Japanese import. After the results of that, I'll stop getting any more copies of this album. Based on what I've been finding out so far, I wouldn't be surprised if that CD is also based on Steve's work. But we'll see.

 

By the way, there's a FGTR reissue on the iTunes Store called The Genesis of Genesis. It's a 2006 release from a label called Revvolution. It's missing the mono single version of "The Silent Sun", and contains those two awful tracks with drum overdubs. Based on three 30-second samples, the tracks also synch up perfectly with Steve's mastering.

 

I'd say the Disky is the best alternative if it's the same as the DCC as it's bound to be cheaper. This is not one of Steve Hoffman's favorite DCC's btw, to anybody that didn't see the other thread a few days ago. Not anywhere up to the usual DCC standard apparently from what Steve said. But he has some pretty high standards. Still, he was pretty adamant about it.

 

Well, we wouldn't admire Steve as much if he had anything other than very high standards, would we? I think I understand his reasons for warning people away from the DCC FGTR (not from the master tapes, etc.). But as Mark F. (mafru2) and John Cantrell said in the other thread, despite Steve's objections to his own work, there's more and more evidence that it's the best way to get FGTR on CD. I guess that's really no surprise.

 

I was sifting through many of these posts, but couldn't find any information regarding the Toshiba Black Triangle versions of the Peter Gabriel-era Genesis cds. Does anyone have information about them, specifically Nursery Cryme and Foxtrot?

 

At some point, there was mention that some of them are clones of the European Virgin/Charisma CD's, IIRC.

 

Hi all,
I'm a very long-time PG fan who's never dipped his toes in the PG-Genesis material (save for borrowing Lamb and Revelation many moons ago). I'd been re-buying (don't ask) PG's singles recently and it occurred to me that it was quite ridiculous loving all this solo material without ever thinking of buying his Genesis work so...

I thought I'd pop in here and see what you all think and, well, I'm beginning to wish I hadn't

I've been trying to follow this thread but, to be honest, I'm getting just a tad confused.

Bearing in mind I'm in the UK, and all I can see in my local stores (and online) are the new SACD combos, would anyone mind please summarising for me just where you'd got to with regard to a definitive (possibly the wrong word!) collection of PG-era Genesis.

Obviously label and cat no are important to know, but are there any pressings/masterings that are key to getting the best versions?

(As an aside, while out hunting new McCartney I happened upon the Disky Revelation set and have been giving it a spin. I'm quite liking much of it, to be honest).

Anyway, thanks for any help you can offer...