Questions on the Beatles tube vs. solid state Parlophone LP cuts

Hi Steve (and all),

Have a question on something you said in this thread ( post 17) :

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=30084&highlight=hard+days+night


"The rule of thumb for me is that (ignoring the first Beatles' album which has to be DIE BEATLES) is that the LATER the Abbey Road cutting the better, until the early 1980's. An exception seems to be BEATLES FOR SALE and a few others that benefit from a tube cutting. With the old tube cutting came filtering and much compression."


So are you saying that some albums actually sound better as solid state cuts?

Which ones?

Thanks Steve,

J33

 

I'm not Steve but the link doesn't work.

 

Sorry , I always get nervous and screw something up lol. Should work now, John.

 

What I can add is that my later 3U/4 pressing of Let It Be sounds much better than the earliest 2U/2U pressing I had. The former's bass goes much lower and the overall sound is cleaner and more dynamic.

 

bump

 

Hi Johnny,

Yes, he's saying they're better, but obviously "better" has to be defined.

I've followed Steve's comments on Beatles mastering pretty closely over the years and, as I recall, he finds the later '70s solid state cuts to be a truer reflection of how the master tapes sound. Since the music was (until Abbey Road) all recorded and mixed on tube equipment, it already has tubey goodness built into it. Tube mastering of tube-recorded music is, for some, overkill. By tube mastering, I mean a cutting lathe that uses tubes for amplification. That's different from using tubes when EQing a tape to sound its best. That's something Steve often finds quite useful.

You want rich and creamy, get early tube-cut Beatles pressings; you want a bit more clarity and less tubey coloration, go for the later solid state pressings—before, that is, the final round of analog mastering in the early to mid '80s (which seems boosted in the highs).

In general, Steve seems to prefer the solid state Neumann cutting lathe to old school tube lathes like the Westrex.

Exceptions to this:

Beatles For Sale sounds great cut with tubes. There's a midrange magic lacking in the later solid state-cut LPs.

Die Beatles is the preferred version of the first album. Not because it was cut with tubes but because it used a better tape as a source.

Others? I don't know which ones Steve has in mind, but IMO Help seems to benefit from a bit of tubey warmth in the mids.

Me, I like most all the UK LPs cut with tubes, but that's a system-dependent thing. I doubt my system is anywhere near as neutral as Steve's is. I like extra midrange warmth because it sounds good in my system. Or maybe it just sounds good to my ears. In either case, other ears and other systems will produce different preferences.

Forgive me if this is all stuff you already know. I imagine plenty of others might not.

 

Quote from Larpy:

"Since the music was (until Abbey Road) all recorded and mixed on tube equipment, it already has tubey goodness built into it."

Now it makes sense.


This is a great insight for me guys.A piece of the puzzle I was not aware of. I really hadnt completely grasped why you like those 70's cuts. Now I do.Thanks for your help and sorry to be so thick.You would think I would have this down by now.

 

Both have their merits. Its like comparing the Mono issues to the Stereo ones- the Mono mixes have something the Stereo version doesn't and vice versa. You really need both.

The tube cuts are usually more compressed and have a midrange presence that the solid state cuts lack somewhat. The solid state cuts are generally cleaner and more dynamic.

I prefer the tube "Beatles For Sale." My mint stereo one box sounds wonderful.

Apart from my overwhelming preference for the tube "Beatles For Sale", it really depends on the mood I'm in. Sometimes I like the murk of the tube cut of "Help", sometimes I dont.

 

Steve, would you be willing to share which other tube cuts besides "Beatles For Sale" you consider to benefit from tube cutting?

The " Beatles For Sale" does sound sweet

 

while we're on the subject of the tube-cut Beatles records...

My -1N mono "With the Beatles" is a sonic mess! The record looks mint but plays with LOTS of distortion. It sounds compressed and filtered and wonky...

Am I crazy? Can anyone who has a -1N pressing verify?

 

-1N WTB Mono is the "loud cut" (like the -1 RS Mono). It should not sound distorted, but is a bit compressed and cut louder than a -7N.

One album that does benefit from a later solid state cutting is Mono Rubber Soul.

 

Yeah, that's how my -1N sounds, and mine is NM. This is a title where I think the Japan '82 red mono is a better choice. Another poster has said the -1N is a "loud cut". I wonder if it's the only one and if later presses (in mono) sound better?

Dale

 

In general, monos of WTB do not have the clarity of the stereos. The later -7N mono sounds a bit better than the -1N mono (in some ways), but I think stereo is the way to hear this album.

 

You give up something and you gain something - at least you have a choice. (Steve beat me to it )

Also, there is The Beatles Second Album and Beatlemania to choose from!

 

Those with VG++ or better -1N Mono "With the Beatles" please PM me -- I'd love to buy it or trade for it!

 

How do you tell a '70s cutting? Are these the 2 box UKs?

 

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=104197&highlight=beatles

 

Which pressing is that? Aren't matrices -1/-1, -4/-4 and -5/-5 all tube cuts?

 

Generally yes. 70s-80s.

 

Yes, all those are tube cuts. The later -6/-6, IIRC, is solid state. But this is more a matter of mastering than solid state being a better match for the LP.

 

I like both -5 and -6 RS monos. They are slightly different, but better than the earlier cuts IMO.