Hendrix "Steppin' Stone"--TWO Buddy Miles mixes!!

[Shawn1968]

Originally Posted by TommyTunes

Not to thread crap but there was a French CD single of All Along the Watchtower with Come On that is supposed to be previously Unreleased. Does anyone know if this is true or when this version was recorded. It doesn't sound unique to me but I never really did a comparison on it.

I have it and yes, it's an alternate take that is unreleased elsewhere.

[Steve E.]

Originally Posted by Larry Geller

Just listened to the 45 (and it was gooooood), and it's the version on Kiss The Sky.

Great. Mystery solved. Thanks muchly!

Sooo....the alt mix appears on Looney Tunes and nowhere else.

[TommyTunes]

Originally Posted by nightfall

I remember seeing that 45 in a NYC record store in 1980. They wanted $150 for it back THEN! I wonder what the going price for a NM copy would be these days.

Actually they no longer go for that much. I had a couple of VG++ stock copies and a mint played once promo. Kept the promo and sold off the stock copies they sold for around $50 each. BTW the promo was cut by Bob Ludwig anyone know if the stock 45 is also?

[Steve E.]

This from Steve Rodham of Jimpress:

Hi Steve

From our recently published [book] "From The Benjamin Franklin Studios":

STEPPING STONE
aka I’m A Man
aka Trying To Be
Composer: Jimi Hendrix

(4) This is the version that was released as a single b/w “Izabella” (7) (A214), though it can be more easily found on Voodoo Child: The Jimi Hendrix Collection (A386). The basic track is take three from 7 January 1970 at the Record Plant with many subsequent overdub and mixing sessions including 20 and 22 January 1970, and 12 February 1970, with the final mix for the single taking place on 15 February 1970. Jimi wasn't happy with this version; more overdubs were performed 26 June 1970 as well as on other dates, while mixing was done during Jimi's final sessions in Electric Lady 20-24 August 1970. (4:07).
[A236, A318, A399, B110, B378, B380, B385, B389, B472, B485, B521, B785, B825]

(5) A slightly different mix of (4) which can be identified by the wah-wah guitar staying on one side of the stereo image during the introduction as opposed to panning across the channels. The rhythm guitar also seems to use the Univibe effect in places. This was officially released on the Warner Brothers sampler Loony Tunes And Merry Melodies (A38), though it can be found more easily back to back with (4) on Ba**censored**psys Vol. 3 (B389). (4:07) or Tru**censored**otion (B816)

Your observations are spot on

All the best
Steve

Brings up a lot of other questions of course....WHICH version was mixed 20-24 August 1970? The Mitch Mitchell one? Or another one we have not heard?

[Shawn1968]

Originally Posted by Steve E.

From our recently published [book] "From The Benjamin Franklin Studios":

Sorry to stray off-topic, but is there a new edition of "From The Benjamin Franklin Studios"? I've got one from a few years back and it's indispensible.

Does anyone know?

[Steve E.]

Originally Posted by Shawn1968

Sorry to stray off-topic, but is there a new edition of "From The Benjamin Franklin Studios"? I've got one from a few years back and it's indispensible.

Does anyone know?

Tuesday, April 08, 2008

From The Benjamin Franklin Studios 3rd Edition Part 1
Current mood: inquisitive
Category: Music

The most comprehensive review of Jimi Hendrix’s work ever compiled is now available in its third edition spread across three volumes.

From The Benjamin Franklin Studios 3rd EditionFrom The Benjamin Franklin Studios 3rd Edition Part 1
Alphabetical listing and appendices and reference lists.
Available now, 352 pages.

From The Benjamin Franklin Studios 3rd Edition Part 2
Full track listings and pictures of all officially released discs used as reference points in Part 1 plus the first part of the bootleg discography. 300 pages. Target date 1 October 2008. Pre-orders being taken.

From The Benjamin Franklin Studios 3rd Edition Part 3
Continuation of the discography, again with a picture of every release. Target date mid 2009. Pre-orders not yet being taken.

Said about the first edition...’As a reference source for the impossibly complicated Hendrix legacy, this is absolutely invaluable, and full of the kind of tit-bits that will have obsessives rushing for their headphones...It’s a magnificent piece of research work which all collectors will want’
Record Collector

...and now about the second edition...
"...300 A4 pages containing an alphabetical listing of every song he ever recorded or performed, together with details of each different version that’s known to exist, and then a complete listing of bootlegs. But the infor has been fully updated and revised for this edition, and there are more appendices - notably a guide to Hendrix’s visual material, from 1965 to 1970, and a tour through the mysteries of the Band of Gypsys rehearsals from late 1969.It’s esoteric stuff but then Hendrix’s catalogue deserves such close attention. Whether you’re collecting legitimate releases, bootlegs or tapes, you’ll need this expert advice and analysis.’
Record Collector

’There have been many discographies compiled over the years but this is the most comprehensive ever assembled, and remains the only one to include details of the many recordings only available on tape.’
Record Mart and Buyer

[glea]

I was inspired to play my single and the War Heroes version to compare. The performance on the singles is much better, but Jimi was right, they lost the bass. No matter...

[R2-D2]

I love this new found 'Looney Tunes' mix, it is much more psychedelic and aggresive, much more interesting to hear than the regular single version, it should have been on the velvet purple box set, i hope we see an official release, I am hoping it is on a Cd somewhere?

[Larry Geller]

Originally Posted by maidenpriest

I love this new found 'Looney Tunes' mix, it is much more psychedelic and aggresive, much more interesting to hear than the regular single version, it should have been on the velvet purple box set, i hope we see an official release, I am hoping it is on a Cd somewhere?

Keep hoping, it ain't. For a song that was, at one time, impossible to find, we sure as hell got a lot of versions now!

[Steve E.]

OK...New scoop, thanks to a needle drop I was so kindly provided.

The mix of "Izabella" on that single is NOT the one on the Voodoo Child comp. I am unaware of it having been rereleased on any other legit item.

It is quite similar to the one on the Voodoo Child comp...in fact the general levels are so similar that they were probably nearly consecutive mixes. It is very hard to tell the difference between the mixes in the beginning.

BUT....the lead guitar on the single pans differently at moments, and is treated to a whole mess of flanging, much like the rhythm guitar on the Looney Tunes "Stepping Stone."

It is conceiveable, on first listen, that the version of "Izabella" on the single was achieved by running a tape of the lead guitar in sync with the mix that finally appeared on Voodoo Child, and letting natural drift take its course, which would have resulted in a flangey guitar and all other elements the same. I have not listened closely enough to see if this is possible.

But, bottom line, they are NOT the same mix.

*** *** *** ***

In addition....as I write this I have figured out....the mix of "Stepping Stone" on that comp is NOT the single mix either, although they are very, very close.

Differences I have found:

1)The lead guitar in the intro only pans once on the single, but on the comp it pans from right to left both times it answers Jimi's opening lines.

2) At the end of the first chorus, when Jimi sings "...rolling stone." there is only one lead guitar at the word "stone." On the recent comp, there are two guitars, harmonizing.

3) the climax in the final moments of the song has the two lead guitar melodies mixed at different levels. The original single favors the lower part slightly.

4) the intercom voice shouting "made it" is much louder in the single, and panned far right. It is far left on the Voodoo Child comp.

The mix on the single is perhaps slightly inferior to the Voodoo Child mix, though the latter is treated to unfortunate brickwalling.

Plot thickens, or thin-ins, or something.

[Chris M]

Fascinating. Excellent work Steve!

[Larry Geller]

Originally Posted by Steve E.

OK...New scoop, thanks to a needle drop I was so kindly provided.

The mix of "Izabella" on that single is NOT the one on the Voodoo Child comp. I am unaware of it having been rereleased on any other legit item.

It is quite similar to the one on the Voodoo Child comp...in fact the general levels are so similar that they were probably nearly consecutive mixes. It is very hard to tell the difference between the mixes in the beginning.

BUT....the lead guitar on the single pans differently at moments, and is treated to a whole mess of flanging, much like the rhythm guitar on the Looney Tunes "Stepping Stone."

It is conceiveable, on first listen, that the version of "Izabella" on the single was achieved by running a tape of the lead guitar in sync with the mix that finally appeared on Voodoo Child, and letting natural drift take its course, which would have resulted in a flangey guitar and all other elements the same. I have not listened closely enough to see if this is possible.

But, bottom line, they are NOT the same mix.

*** *** *** ***

In addition....as I write this I have figured out....the mix of "Stepping Stone" on that comp is NOT the single mix either, although they are very, very close.

Two differences I have found:

1)The lead guitar in the intro only pans once on the single, but on the comp it pans from right to left both times it answers Jimi's opening lines.

2) At the end of the first chorus, when Jimi sings "...rolling stone." there is only one lead guitar at the word "stone." On the recent comp, there are two guitars, harmonizing.

The mix on the single is perhaps slightly inferior to the Voodoo Child mix, though the latter is treated to unfortunate brickwalling.

Plot thickens, or thin-ins, or something.

Check the
Stepping Stone 45 with Kiss The Sky. I think THEY are the same.

[Steve E.]

Trying to track it down right now. (I don't have it.)

I found another difference:

Verse two:

Jimi: "You're a woman, at least you say you are"

both mixes: lead in leftt.

Jimi: "You're a woman, at least you look like you are"
single mix: guitar scampers R to L
VC: guitar scampers L to R

Jimi: "You're a woman, at least you taste like you are"

single mix: guitar makes lapping noises L to R
VC: guitar makes lapping noises R to L

(such great details in this song! )

[Steve E.]

Soo....anyone got Kiss the Sky _and_ Voodoo Child to compare those two "Stepping Stone" mixes for minute panning detail, as above?

[Steve E.]

bump....still trying to get someone to listen to Kiss The Sky to find out if the actual single mix of "Stepping Stone" has ever been on CD. Compare notes, as above, to differentiate the very similar mix found on Voodoo Child. Note panning choices.

I suppose there's a "Singles Collection" comp or two to be checked, too...

[R2-D2]

Steve, I will check them out tommorow on my day off, so I am comparing which version of Stepping Stone (the looney tunes version?) to the one on any Cd comp, I can check Singles, Cornerstones, Kiss The Sky, The Essential, Ultimate Hendrix, i am not sure all of them contain Stepping because I am at work at the mo

[Steve E.]

OK, I have listened to the "Kiss the Sky" version.

It is not the single mix. It is the Voodoo Child mix.

But, I gotta say, the differences in these mixes are minimal. One would be forgiven for thinking they are the same. They contain exactly the same elements, treated with the same EQ, effects, etc. The levels are very slightly different, and the zig zag of the panning is different. They must have been done back to back. I actually give the edge to the version available on Kiss the Sky and Voodoo Child over the version on the single, because the guitar elements are in better proportion to each other. Perhaps that's part of why Hendrix was annoyed at the release of the single....it's a slightly inferior mix.

The "Izabella" single mix appears never to have been released on any digital medium. Too bad, because I think that is better than the Voodoo Child mix. Did I mention that it trails off for quite a bit longer?

EDIT: I have listened to Cornerstones now. Again, not the single mix! same as the Voodoo Child/Kiss the Sky version.

[prof. stoned]

Great Thread! I've read it with amazement.
Gotta say that the Looney tunes mix is really a poor mix job, made me appreciate the voodoo chile version even more.
Also, thanks for the scans of the single. It looks delicious.

[Steve E.]

My interest in these mixes has gone beyond obsession. I've listened to them so many times I can track the most minute differences. I now think it's debatable whether the "released-in-the-CD-era pseudo-single mix" (I'll call it the Kiss the Sky mix from now on) of "Stepping Stone" is superior to the single; they both have their merits. Here are my recent observations:

*The Voodoo Child release is brickwalled to hell. If the Kiss the Sky version of this same mix is cranked up, it beats it handily, sonics-wise.

*The Cornerstones version synchs perfectly to the Kiss the Sky version, sample by sample. Unfortunately the first second or two has been lopped off the beginning of the Cornerstones version. They may have slight EQ or level differences, but they were generated from the same digital source. Wish I had a non-degraded version of the Kiss the Sky track instead of a lo-res mp3....sounds like the best digital version.

*While overall I prefer the Kiss the Sky mix, there is a crucial difference at the start of the explosive solo that starts at 2:11. On both versions the solo starts out double-tracked. At the second go-round of the riff, the "second lead" starts noodling downwards, playing a counterpoint to the main lead. (This seems to be the track that's used as the main lead on Voodoo Soup.) On the original single, this abruptly (too abruptly?) ends at the third go-round and that guitar is replaced with a great rhythm part, panned hard left. On the Kiss the Sky version, the counterpoint solo continues through the third go-round of the riff (at 2:19) in a way which arguably muddies up the mix....or adds an exciting chaos, depending on what mood I'm in. It then transitions to that rhythm part at the 4th go-round (2:22), but in a less dramatic and maybe even muddled way, probably by a cross fade to another track. The rhythm part is lower in the mix, to the mix's detriment. But the final hoedown section is perhaps stronger in the Kiss the Sky version.

*I'll betcha the solo from these two versions was erased by Hendrix after these mixes were made. The War Heroes and Voodoo Soup versions each highlight different and IMO inferior solos.

*I would really be amazed if Hendrix was going to scrap this song and not include it on the album. He was clearly working very hard on the most minute details of this mix, and I think he had it in the bag, whether or not he realized it. This is a much more careful mix than a lot of the other First Rays-era stuff, especially some of the early posthumous mixes. To me, there is a clear difference between any mix he supervised and the most of the non-Hendrix mixes done, even by his allies, without his involvement.

[Steve E.]

By the way....I'd been looking for this site, lost track of it. A very fine online and user-friendly discography:

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/hendrix.guide/hendrix2.htm