Early Roxy Music CDs

I bought some early Roxy Music CDs yesterday. Two are on EG "manufactured by Polygram" in WG. Two are on EG "Marketed by Virgin" and made in the UK - NOT the later HDCD versions.

How much difference is there between the Polygram and early Virgin masterings?

I did look at earlier threads but they seem to discuss mostly Polygram WG vs Virgin HDCD.

Tim

 

See this thread regarding Siren and Stranded:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=137838&highlight=roxy+music+siren

 

I think you are saying that some are different and some are the same!

Fortunately the Stranded I bought is the Virgin EG which you said you preferred. Manifesto on the other hand is a red face polydor which looks lovely even if it isn't necessarily the best sounding.

Tim

 

What was the other EG "Marketed by Virgin" CD you bought? Maybe you can post peak levels? I can check them against my Polygram version. I have the red faced Polydor of Manifesto too. A beautiful looking CD.

 

Country Life:

Peak level 99.6 %
Peak level 91.1 %
Peak level 94.6 %
Peak level 98.5 %
Peak level 99.8 %
Peak level 92.6 %
Peak level 61.4 %
Peak level 95.9 %
Peak level 85.4 %
Peak level 100.0 %

Tim

 

Country Life W. Germany PolyGram. Seams to bee different from the later Virgin EG.

Track 1
Peak level 79.4 %
Track 2
Peak level 81.8 %
Track 3
Peak level 75.7 %
Track 4
Peak level 85.7 %
Track 5
Peak level 83.6 %
Track 6
Peak level 82.5 %
Track 7
Peak level 68.7 %
Track 8
Peak level 89.1 %
Track 9
Peak level 77.3 %
Track 10
Peak level 88.3 %

 

But what do they sound like?

 

Can't comment on Polygram vs early Virgin because I don't have both versions.

I do prefer these earlier masterings to the later remasters.

Tim

 

Remasters soundfine to me...

 

I haven't heard a bad one.

 

Well, I said I preferred them, not that they were better.

Still, this may interest some of you. In All I want is You, on Country Life, there is a section at about 1.11 where there is a burst of loud music - just after Ferry sings "..a night that lasts for years."

On my Virgin EG this is a noticable step up in volume, but less so on the remaster. I tried to put some numbers on this, by looking at the stats in Cooledit. Looking at the 10 seconds just before and just after, this shows roughly:

Virgin EG: average RMS goes up by 2.82 db
Remaster: average RMS goes up by 1.3 db

Now, 1db is meant to be an audible difference, so I guess 1.5db is significant.

OK, it is not that big a deal, but may help to explain why I personally like the older one better - I definitely notice the difference.

Let me add, the Roxy remasters are not brickwalled like some releases.

Tim

 

Could someone please explain why there are both Polydor and E'G Roxy Music discs that were pressed in West Germany by Polygram? From the inserts, there is no indication that they were issued for different markets. The Polydor and E'G issues even have the same catalog number.

 

I seem to recall the loud burst from the original vinyl as well. The problems with early EG Roxy's is that the sound could be wildly inconsistent. For example, Country Life had a problem with the sound DROPPING in the song so either the playback head used during the transfer had some sort of problem or it was a drop out of some sort.

Perhaps this occurred only with the first pressing (the U.S. release by Warner didn't have this problem)that I purchased back in 1987 or 88.

Siren had the beginning clipped off of Whirlwind and there were a couple of other flaws as I recall (I don't have the disc any more). Manifesto used the LP 2nd master prepared with the disco mix of Angel Eyes (not the original master that had the rock version) after the remix charted.

Generally I'm pleased by the remasters even with their minor flaws (they are louder, yes) compared to the original masters which sounded one dimensional and "flat" (not in a good way), thin and reedy to my ears.

 

I have the Flesh and Blood remaster by Ludwig and it sounds good.i compared it to an original US promo of the album I have and it held up pretty well.The CD doesn't have that three-dimensionality or warmth that the LP has,but it is detailed like the LP.The new CD doesn't have that tubey magic that the best Cds have ,but is good for CD.

 

Generally Ludwig did a terrific job with the RM back catalog. My only complaint is a lack of comprehensive liner notes and/or outtakes.

 

You should try and listen to Flesh And Blood in HDCD.

Had the good fortune of being involved in a shoot-out on a very high-end system several years ago at Audio Ark in Edmonton with 3 different CD pressings and my U.K. analogue LP of Flesh And Blood from the First Seven Albums box set. You get more depth/3D type quality with the HDCD encoding. It stands up very nicely to my analogue U.K. LP pressing. It totally beats the original U.S. CD and even suprisingly, the 1989 U.K. CD from the Late Years 3 CD box set.

Avoid the Roxy Music target CD of Avalon for sound. It is very flat sounding and lifeless, compared to the HDCD remaster and the SACD AND the original U.K. vinyl. (By all means get one if you're collecting target CDs. It's nice to look at.)

 

OK i must ask you guys.
I began my exploration of early Roxy by buying Stranded, the HDCD Ludwig version.
To put it simply, I find it very harsh. It reminded me of the Ryko's remasterings of Bowie. Very energetic. But very harsh.
Just to confirm what I was hearing, I looked at the waves.
Now it may be that the recording is like that, and there is nothing Mr Ludwig could do. Still, I would be curious to see the waves of other editions, to see if they are as un-dynamic as this one.

This is Mother Of Pearl, btw...

Thansk for sharing rour thoughts (before I decide which edition will be my "For Your Pleasure")

 

This is from the EG edition:

 

And this si from the EG "manufactured by Polygram" in WG.:

 

I have just replaced all the HDCD's with all the UK EGCD's. The HDCD's aren't the worst remasters I've heard, but I also found them too loud and harsh. Some people here swear by them though. If you're thinking about For Your Pleasure, the UK EGCD sounds fantastic IMO.

Regarding Country Life, I just compared the UK EGCD with a US Reprise premaster (Roxy were on Reprise in the US, not Warner, as mentioned above). Despite the UK disc apparently having issues, it's better than the Reprise, which is mastered at too low a volume and sounds flat and lifeless by comparison. Could somebody point out to me a specific problem to listen for on the EGCD?

 

Here's a screenshot of The Thrill Of It All from my early Australian EGCD 16, matrix 786482 @2. It has a 0.0 peak. I guess it may be identical to the other US and UK versions? Don't have EAC access right now.

 

Roxy Music sounds BETTER with a touch of surface noise. I'll take the EGs or US Yellow label ATCO vinyls over any CD anyday.

 

I picked up a "Stranded" yesterday EGCD10 West Germany Polygram pressing which sounds very nice - but, being my first copy of this album, can't comment on other pressing qualities. Comments made on this thread have been very informative - thanks all

 

I just got EG's Stranded and For Your Pleasure at bargain price from e-bay.
I will be able to compare EG's and HDCD's Stranded .
From a previous post, you already know that I find the HDCD kind of harsh.
Very curious to hear them.

 

Just out of curiosity, does your player decode HDCD? It makes a significant difference. I have the early ones and the HDCD. I prefer the HDCD but only on a machine with a decoder. They just sound wrong when played on a stardard player. Without the decoder I would have no use for the HDCD versions. I think the early ones sound pretty good as well.