Needledrop Clips - Madonna Singles - Opinions Wanted

As some of you may recall, I'm working on a version of Madonna's Immaculate Collection using original single mixes (the actual release is remixed in QSound).

I need your help. I have three songs that I recorded three times (versions #1, #2 and #3). For each version, I made one change to my setup. I did this on all three songs, and each version number matches the change. I'm not going to say what that is yet.

These were recorded straight into my sound card at 16-bit/44.1, edited to 1 minute and saved as a WAV file. No processing of any kind... no manual declicking either. Each file is approx. 10 MB.

Please listen and post comments on the sound quality.

NOTE: Please, no commentary on the music itself. I'll report those posts to the Gorts immediately, so you might as well leave the snarky comments to yourself. I think there's another thread going right now, that's custom-made for such things.

"Like A Virgin"
From Like A Virgin LP. MASTERDISK/RL "Set 3 INTL" Pressed in Canada
Version #1
Version #2
Version #3

"Live To Tell"
Single Edit from Live to Tell 12" Single - Mastered at Future Disc, Pressed by Specialty
Version #1
Version #2
Version #3

"Vogue"
Single mix from 7" Single - DMM Mastering by Sterling
Version #1
Version #2
Version #3

I'll probably ask some additional questions, and then reveal the differences between each clip.

Thanks for playing!

 

Hey guy, i'll check these out tomorrow.

 

I knew I could count on you, Grant.

 

I'll check them out too -- can't wait to hear

 

Keith,

Thanks for sharing these with us. In all three cases, I find the 1st version to be dry and constricted sounding. The transients sound like they're on the verge of clipping or perhaps already there. The reverb tails and overall soundstage on the 1st versions also sound synthetic, almost like a cheaper digital reverb unit.

The 2nd versions are a big improvement, to my ears anyway. The transients sound more natural (mind you they're still quite synthetic due to the genre of the music and the era of the recording. Nile Rogers liked things snappy!) and the soundstage seems more natural.

I almost prefer the soundstaging on the 3rd versions, especially on Like A Virgin. It just sounds slightly more natural, but the difference is subtle. However, the bass on the 3rds seems like it lost the bottom octive in a couple of cases. The second half of Vogue is a good example of this. It almost sounds like the bottom octave was completely filtered away.

Because of this, and because the soundstage difference between the 2nd and 3rd versions is subtle, I prefer the 2nd version for each.

Thanks,
Steve.

 

Thanks Steve! Very interesting.

 

I'm curious to hear what changes you made, so I hope others will chime in soon here

I'm wondering if maybe it has to do with mats.

 

Well, I'm not going to confirm or deny anything until more people respond.

I just burned all the tracks to a CD and took it for a ride on my system. I should have done this last night... the differences were far more pronounced.

 

I have to agree with Steve. I am certianly not an expert and do not know a lot of the things many people here do. However, after listening to each of the three songs several times, I find I prefer the 2nd version of each one the most. It sounds the best to my ears. It has the most "natural" sound and also sounds most like vinyl. BTW, nothing wrong with Madonna. She had some great songs out there. I made my own "Immaculate Collection" years ago from the 7" and 12" singles I have.

Chad

 

Thanks Chad!

Still waiting on brstp and Grant.

 

I listened to Like A Virgin.

Clip 3 is slightly louder than the other two.

I think clip 2 is the best. The top end isn't as bright but it's the only one where the hi hat decay didn't seem cut off. The bottom end is deeper whereas the other two seemed a bit stifled in the lows (especially clip 1). Still, the mix seems a lot more laid back and softer than it should be. I certainly don't like that quality.

Is clip 2 a different cart than the others... a Shure V15 perhaps?

The first clip was also slightly left heavy.

My order:
2 (Although I don't like the softening of the mix)
1 (Low end seemed shallow)
3 (More surface noise. Slightly better low end than 1 but muddier overall)

 

Jamie,

Can you give a listen to Live to Tell? That 12" has a nicer overall tone, IMHO. The LP of Like a Virgin was always a little whimpy to me.

PS I realize that I didn't normalize everything... I figure people can do that with their volume knob. Also, I'm aware of the channel discrepancies on the first clip.

All will be revealed soon!

 

Well that's a whole different story. Clip 1 is the best. None of the others come close to it. It's clear with a deep bottom end.

Again, clip 2 has softened the mix too much. Ick!

Clip 3 is small sounding and sounded boxy to me. The bottom end was small. Even after I raised the volume to match clip 2 it still sounded small.

 

Burned the songs to cd-r. Then played them thru a Sony SACD player, model SCD-CE775, B+W 600 speakers.

Guess I don't have a big enough "big boy" system. Not hearing a lot of difference between the three clips of each song.

Will say thought, that'd I go with clip no.1. as I agree with the earlier response. "Vogue" clip 3 sounds a bit thinner (is that the correct terminology?) than the other two or I might have voted for clip 3.

Just read Jamie's post. I like the term soft. Clips no.2 sound soft, quieter than the others.

 

Jamie, can you explain what you mean by "softened." I think I know what you mean (and if so, agree with you), but I want to make sure.


So far all the comments make a lot of sense to me. I'm still surprised by clip 3. I didn't think the difference in the low end would be so great... but there you go.

Is Grant up yet?

 

Thanks Miike!

Interesting that you and Jamie agree but Steve thinks #2 is best.

I wonder if this music is too synthetic for a good comparison? Maybe I should post a clip of Led Zeppelin or something.

This thread is serving two purposes. The first is to get the best out of these Madonna singles with the equipment I have on hand. The second purpose will be explained later.

 

Was that a pun?

Take Like A Virgin, the kick is there but the other instruments... keys, guitar etc. are all pushed back a bit and they sound mellower than in the other clips. Things aren't coming at you like they are in the other clips.

There was an engineer I used to work with that used an old pair of KEF speakers, the ones with a passive radiator. They made everything sound like it needed Viagra. Everything was somewhat bent over and limp. The snare didn't snap, it had a soft, pillowy sound to it. The guitars sounded like they were played with a felt pick. I hated those damn things.

 

On which song? I thought it was better on Virgin but not so much on Live To Tell. Quite a difference between the songs.

 

He was speaking generally on all of them:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2302733&postcount=5

 

Oh, sorry. I thought you meant another Steve.

 

It's interesting though... you feel the 2nd version is softer (on Virgin), but Steve Thomson felt that the transients on the first version were getting killed or distorted, and he preferred the 2nd.

 

I wasn't necessarily talking about transients. On that I agree with him. The hi-hat does not sound natural in clip 1 (although the kick in clip 1 sounds killer). I think I said something about the decay of the hats being cut short in all but clip 2.

What I'm talking about probably has more to do with tonality. Clip 2 seems to take away a little of the edge on the tones and somehow cuts the nuts off the mix. I've never heard that song sound like that. It's not a wimpy mix. It comes at you, like it should.

 

Wow... I listened to them again, and just paid attention to the hi-hat. That is crazy! You're right... it's so short in clip 1, there's no "room" in there. The kick sounds massive though. In clip 2, the kick is wimpy but the hi-hat and ambiance is back. Clip 3 has far less low end, but the hi-hat ambiance is a little louder, as though it's compressed.

 

I also hear a bump in, say, the 800Hz range on Clip 3. Am I close?

 

YES! I heard that too. But after the bump there seems to be less going on lower in the spectrum.