Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon Japan CDs

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought NR didn't exist until 1987? Unless these CDs were manufactured after that point...

I'll have to listen to my CD again. The only way to know for sure is if I had a black triangle on hand to compare to.

 

I really don't know. You'd have to ask Steve to be certain, but I have some CD's up until 1989 that have no NR so it is definitely pressing dependant.

The breath of life is another matter though and the difference is not small between the Harvest and black triangle editions with the pressings I've compared, on my system anyways. The Harvest sounded like it has a veil over it compared to the CP35-3017.

 

DIDX-226 131A10 - Made In USA Digital Audio Disc Corp.

Here is a scan:

 

Sorry, that's not the black triangle version that we're talking about. It looks more like this...



and the black-faced Japan Harvest edition looks like this...



The UK silver-faced with black text edition Harvest shares the same catalog number. As far as I can tell the matrix number showing the CP35-3017 catalog number only applies to the Harvest CD's made in Japan which is what I compared my CP35-3017 against.

 

Okay, thanks!

Is there a waveform comparison somewhere in the archive that confirms a difference between the US Capitol - CDP 7 460001 2 and the Japan CDP 7 460001 2 cited above?

 

Please read post #74 Jeff.

 

I see. I was going with Phil's suggestion earlier on in the thread--for the sake of convenience--but if that's destined to be inaccurate, then I guess not.

Shall we send all our CDs to you Dave? We need a double-blind, placebo controlled study.

 

Dave, I'm not saying your method won't work, but you seem to be saying my method won't. It will.

My original suggestion involved wav files, which provided they have been extracted correctly, certainly will be accurate . You only need a tiny snippet.

While it might not tell you exactly how your CD will play back on your rig (a waveform doesn't have jitter), it will be a bit identical copy of the data pressed onto the disc. If you want to eliminate jitter from the equation, a wav file is the way to do it.

You can use EAC, it will allow you to rip to your hard drive, and chop it down to a small segment that could be posted or emailed. If you want to do your own comparisons, you can downlod the demo for Wavelab. This is great for trimming two wavefiles so that they start at exactly the same place. It will then do a bit for bit comparison and give you the result. I can't remember if Audition does this aswell? It doesn't matter if your soundcard is a hot-rod card or not, as it isn't used anywhere except for playing back your wav. If you do have a good card however, it will help you listen for any differences aswell. If the bits are identical, there won't be any, period.

I guess it might sound fiddly if you haven't done it before, but I've done it loads ... this is how I did my samples, which are still up in this thread (!), if someone wants to grab the same section of their disc to compare, or email it to me (I don't mind).

 

Phil,

I've been ripping and burning with EAC on my PLextor using wavefiles for 4 years and not one CD-R has ever been 100% as good as it's host. I've also heard several different rip/burn programs and my opinion has not changed.

 

I should clarify that I'm talking about ripping for the purposes of comparing samples. I never said anything about CDRs. That's a different area...

 

If we're just talking about ripping a waveform to the computer (provided it's done correctly), and comparing the data, then there shouldn't be any sort of issue. Burning to a CD-R brings things like jitter in the equation. From looking at some of the previous posts, we could be looking at more than one mastering for the Japan black-faced Harvest CDs, so I'm really curious about "settling" this.

BTW Dave, I competely trust your ears (I believe we have the same mastering "tastes" ).

 

Yes, I've heard a lot about jitter issues, but what I'm talking about is mastering issues. Well, thanks to a Forum member I was able to conclude that the Japanese Harvest was no where near as good as the CP35-. The two remaining are the UK version, which I'll bet is the same as the Japanese Harvest, and that version that Dob speaks of.

Does anyone have the CP35-3017 U 1B2 TO (and CDP 7 46001 2 AR) in the matrix ring version?

 

As I've said earlier, you need to tell us which black harvest you are referring to. They aren't all the same. Some are mono at the end, some are stereo! With Ticket To Ride as the bonus track.

I have a UK version, an EMI Swindon pressing. Totally different mastering to my Black Harvest (it's louder, and sounds mashed up in the top end), and doesn't have pre-emphasis either.

 

Forgot to mention - my UK Harvest has TTR aswell, exactly as Jerry describes it.

What have we all got then? This thread's got a bit long so I thought this would be useful. BTW Goodyear - you've listed two different discs .

There's a few holes, there's a few where we don't know which fold down to mono at the end and which don't, so if anyone wants to PM me I'll fill in the blanks, same if you spot any mistakes.

Don't ask me why I felt like like doing this

Black Harvest:

Goodyear:
(post 56) CP35-3017 10A1
(post 23) CP35-3017 13A2 and 7-46001 2
SamS CP35-3017 20A2 and 7-46001 2
tlake6659 CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2
HeavyDistortion CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2
Moby Deek CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2 (mono at end, no Ticket To Ride)
David P. Hill CP35-3017 21A2
BenCañas CP35-3017 21A2 and 7-46001 2
Veedub CP35-3017 28A5
Phil Elliott CP35-3017 28A6 and 7-46001 2 (mono at end, no Ticket To Ride)
Joe Fornarotto CP35-3017 30A1 and 7-46001 2
4_everyman CP35-3017 31A4 and 7-46001 2
Evan CP35-3017 #### and CDP 7-46001 #
stinsojd CP35-3017 33B8
Dob CP35-3017 U 1B2 TO and CDP 7 46001 2 AR (stereo at end, with Ticket To ride)



Black triangle:
poweragemk CP35-3017-3 1A1
Evan CP35-3017 U 1A1 TO
taxman150 CP35-3017-U 1A3 TO
Dave CP35-3017-7 1A1
Bill S ?

 

FWIW the Japan Harvest I compared to was CP35-3017 21A2 and CDP 746001 2 and I filled in the matrix info. on my CP35-3017 in Phil's post above.

 

The matrix # of my black triangle is: CP35-3017-U 1A3 TO

My Japanese black harvest is in the mail to me to compare!

 

Ooh... Phil's post reminded me: I have 2 of the Japanese black-faced Harvest DSOTM CDs. I found a second one in very good shape in a used CD store not too long ago for $7.

My old one: CP35-3017 13A2 -- CDP 7 46001 2
The new one: CP35-3017 10A1

I haven't A/B'ed the 2 yet, but I will soon.

EDIT: and just to clarify, there's no "CDP 7 46001 2" written on the inner ring on the "new one."
EDIT2: fixed a typo in the catalog #...

 

If someone has both pressings, they could use CDex (free download) to rip the tracks and then use the "Compare Two Files" feature to do a bit by bit comparison. I presume EAC has the same feature.

 

I haven't read the whole thread, but here's my .02. I have the blackface, the MFSL UD 1 and the black triangle version. I find the black triangle and MFSL sound better than the blackface (mine has cp35 in the ring but it's a different master from the black triangle). I am actually unsure whether I prefer the black triangle or the MFSL so I play them both.

 

Comparing samples over the internet works a treat...

Greg (thread starter Moby Deek) has kindly sent me wav samples from each track of his black face Harvest (21A2), to compare with mine (28A6). I compared every sample - Wavelab says the following:

"The two files have a different size, but the shorter one is exactly equal to the start of the longer one." In otherwords, I've just compared wav files from two different discs, containing identical data.

Conclusion:
CP35-3017 21A2
CP35-3017 28A6
Same mastering.

It seems that everyone who has this mastering is more than happy with it, however...

Dave was lent a 21A2 disc. I'm up for comparing more Harvest discs (we know there are at least two masterings for that), but I'm even more curious to get a comparison with a black triangle (or several). If there is a superior mastering to that mentioned above, it must be a real treat. Or is it just down to personal taste?

We could do with more samples folks... thanks!

 

For those who want to send me anything:

We came up against one small snag, in that I don't have my disc with me at the moment, just the samples I posted a few months ago. Greg had to download my samples, then cut his so that they matched. He's a patient fellow...

To avoid anyone else having to listen to my samples first, I've made a list detailing where you need to cut them - if you send me a PM, I'll give you the list and my email address to send them to. If you don't feel like grabbing chunks of every song, just send me what you can. Thanks.

Greg used EAC to extract the samples, and cut them down to size using Cool Edit Pro; I was then able to compare these with the samples I made last year, using Wavelab (ripped with Nero CDDAE).

 

I bought mfidelity's Japanese Black Harvest pressing of DSOTM that he sold recently as I was curious as to how it compared with my original black triangle DSOTM. The disc has the same matrix numbers as the one Dave listened to - CP35-3017 21A2.

I compared the Black Harvest version pretty extensively back and forth between the black triangle and the difference is easy to hear. While the Black Harvest pressing is not bad by any stretch, there is still a thin layer of NR on it that hurts the dynamics. There is not as much hiss on the Black Harvest version and the vocals and instrumentation just don't "leap out" at you like they do on the black triangle. The whole thing sounds a slight bit muffled to me. I can see where you might not notice it if you don't have the black triangle version, but if you do, there is no going back. Would I be happy with the Black Harvest version if I didn't have the black triangle - sure - but the pressings I have compared are definitely not the same mastering.

I wouldn't think there are different masterings of the the black triangle DSOTM either. I have another on the way to me from Japan though and will be happy to note any differences if they do exist.

 

Mine seems to be mono at the end, and I am somewhat certain I hear no Ticket To Ride. (it IS easy to hear when present, right?)

 

I sent KeithH a pm asking about his Harvest disc, and his two black triangles. This is what he came back with.

He has got:

Black Harvest:
"CP35-3017 31B1" and "CDP 7 46001 2"
Running time: 42:58

Black Triangles:
"CP35-3017-7" and "1A1" (same as Dave's)
Running time: 42:58

CP35-3017 U 1A1 TO (same as Evan's)
Running time: 42:56

So there are triangles with different timings, as read from his CD player. Keith reckons the 42.56 is a later pressing due to a barcode on the OBI strip.

Just to recap; Dave's disc appears to win in a shootout with a Harvest, while Evan's triangle, according to him, certainly does not. Notice I use them term "a Harvest" loosely...

What timings have we all got?