Red Hot Chili Peppers "Stadium" on LP getting closer to being released, look at this.

I'd even accept a regular DVD (non-Audio) version with bonus video content to justify the re-release.

Plus releasing it that way would make it compatible with all players, instead of needing to revert to DVD-A with Dolby Digital tracks.

 

The RIAA eq curve is definitely done in real time during cutting.

For regular EQ moves that the mastering engineer may do (like maybe add or cut 1db in the 3K range, for example), usually yes, it too is happening in real time, along with any level changes between tracks and what ever else the mastering engineer feels needs to be done... if anything... to help out the sound of the master tapes. Sometimes they may even run a little compression on it - it wasn't totally unheard of even in the LP world. Remember that the final mixing to the master tape is usually done in a different studio by different people than where the mastering occurs. The mastering engineer also has a fresh set of ears to hear things by and isn't influenced by the history and all the other elements that may have come and gone during the recording of the songs on the tape.

What has happened in the past, during LP mastering, is that some (maybe even most?) engineers ran a second line from the playback console to another tape deck, recording his "mastering moves" as the record was being cut. This is what would then be labeled as the "LP Master". If another cutting had to be made months or even years later, they would just pull the "LP Master" and re-cut another platter with all the same original mastering moves in place, but now one tape generation away from the original master tape. Again, the RIAA curve is not on this tape copy, just normal playback levels with whatever changes the mastering engineer made during the original mastering session. There are LPs that were re-cut years later, but not with that "LP Master". Some were actually "re-mastered" by totally different engineers without any such labeling about it. I have a 1981 (or there-abouts) pressing of Heart's Little Queen complete with newer black Portrait label and UPC on back cover with no indication of where it was cut or pressed. I also have an original '77 gray Portrait label pressing with the Kendun Recorders stamp and John Golden's initials in the dead-wax. Both sound very different, and both look different looking at the grooves and how they were cut.

Early in the CD era, a lot of times it was the "LP Master" that was pulled to make the CD. That's why sound quality was so varied - sometimes the "LP Master" might have been just fine sound wise, but other times the EQ'ing done might have been a little too severe for CD (and sometimes it was too severe even for the LP too). That's why rebel engineers like Steve, Barry Diament, and forum member (and former Atlantic mastering engineer) Zal Schreiber all insisted on using the "real" master tapes for CD mastering, instead of the ones the vault librarians were so used to pulling all those years before. They all knew it was best to go back to the source whenever possible. As Steve has said in the past, the real master tapes were usually the tape box marked "Do Not Use".

 

I think he meant HIS mastering job was an artist call. The CD mastering still might not be an artist call.

 

Now that I saw those waveforms I'm now even more happy I didn't waste my money on the CD release and decided to wait for the vinyl.

 

Thank you, this clears things up. In other forums some people have tried to convince me that the LP mastering of S.A. didn't really come directly from the "unmastered analog mix tapes".

They suggest something like:

unmastered tapes + equalisation -(copied)-> 'new "LP Master" tape with equalisation', then "LP Master" + RIAA equalisation --> lathe.

So a new (what I would call) 'intermediate' LP Master tape is created to save the equalisation, which means the transfer is a generation down (not that it would really matter to my ears).

I didn't know if this was the procedure for S.A., but if it was I guess that means Warner Bros. get that LP Master tape?

Is this what you mean when you write:

Whereas, from what I had read in the case of Stadium Arcadium, any EQ and the RIAA curve was applied in real time as the lathe was going.

The benefit is the mastering was made directly from those unmastered tapes, the downside is Steve's mastering has not been "saved" to an "LP Master" for future use.

So when D) he masters the DVD-Audio he will need to get the unmastered tapes back, rather than being able to use an equalised LP Master tape (which at any rate is the best scenario because it avoids missing a generation of quality, and maybe digital needs different EQ to analog mastering for vinyl anyway, making an LP Master unsuitable?)

I guess an exception to this would be if it was just physically impossible for the mastering engineer(s) to do enough fader moves in real time. But I imagine that is only a problem for really complicated mastering projects.

 

For me, it's not the convenience..

I am both a long-time RHCP fan and sound dynamics appreciator, and favour a HiRez digital version because in my mind, the vinyl on a $300 turntable isn't going to sound as clean/transparent as a SACD through a $300 D/A converter. (Maybe it isn't about transparency?) As it is a mechanical device, I worry I'll be listening with a feeling that something might not be perfectly regulated and I may be getting inferior sound (inconsistency along time, get it?). While with a SACD I'll simply pop it in and relax.

But I might be wrong, as I'm so far from being an expert. Anyone can tell me if this worry unjustified? Thanks!

 

How much do 'first call' mastering engineers like Vlado Meller get per project? I'll take a wild guess, $10,000 - $20,000? Does this sound reasonable?

[sarcasm]

No need to worry, I can hear the sound of clipping perfectly when I play my vinyl copy of Californication. The vinyl version is so good the clipping sounds as transparent, if not even more so than the CD version!

[/sarcasm]

Ohh, OK, I really mean...

 

I have to add that I don't think Steve makes such "LP Master" copies. In fact, I'm not sure anyone does that anymore for any modern mastering project whether its for an LP or a CD. I think it was more of a "back in the day" thing. Steve will have to confirm that one though.

I do know that Steve always works from the master tapes whether he's worked with them before or not. His CCR work is an example. He's always worked directly from the original masters with every transfer he's done - the old DCC CD's, the more recent LPs, the recent SACD and the CD layer of the SACDs where all separate masterings from the same original tape.

 

I would replace the word "rebel" with "concerned", at least in my case .We all wanted to give the listening audience the best sounding release we possibly could. And we knew that if it was an EQ'd copy, for example, even if the best sound path and ancillary gear was used, it was a copy, with the inherent additional tape his. And any copy most likely would be a somewhat distorted version of the original, tape hiss issue aside.

So we felt since we were not going to have this additional tape hiss on our digitally mastered master, and if our equipment was up to the task, and the wire transfer path was minimal and of good cable stock, we should go the extra yard, if need be (and many times it took a bit of teeth pulling to get the original master) we should go for it. And I'm glad to say, it payed off in the end the great majority of times.

Atlantic's policy while I was there was to pull the master tape AND a vinyl release of it for comparison of the way it was originally released. And as I've said before, I was many times amazed what was left out of the original vinyl SOUND QUALITY WISE, and had to struggle with the idea that I was perhaps not limiting the frequencies left out on the original!

 

Fair enough.

Oh, and I went back an corrected Barry's last name in that post...

 

Is there a release date for this set on vinyl yet?

 

No, no, I indeed asked a serious question. I've been away for a few weeks, and I would have thought this would have been released by now given the street date on the actual album. Looking through some, though not all of the thread, I didn't recall seeing anything about an actual planned release date. Apologies if I've asked a stupid question.

 

Watch for a sticky from Steve when we get a release date.

 

hey, here's a thought... if the major's can decide on it anyway...

have 2 mastered versions of the same album available... (say on Blu-Ray w/ the necessary capacity)... one all maximized and compressed, the second, mastered for high-fidelity!

 

if I ever hit big and release a single,
I'd have a single mix (compressed/maximized)
and an album mix (properly mastered)
they'd be the same mix, just one would be louder

 

Any new news? Pictures, stories, info of any kind? I keep telling myself to be patient...but I have to keep checking !......

 

This has got to be better than the cd version.

 

any word on a release date, I'll have to check to see if I an pre order on musicdirect.com

 

any word on a release date, I'll have to check to see if I an pre order on musicdirect.com

 

jpc.de shows a planned release date - 11th of August.

http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/lang/en/currency/GBP/rsk/hitlist/rk/home/hnum/7586350

 

Only two weeks left

The item from that link is probably the standard version. 49.99 euros...I hope it's cheaper at US webstores.

This must be the 180g deluxe version:
http://www.jpc.de/jpcng/poprock/detail/-/hnum/7586369/rk/home/rsk/hitlist

 

double post

 

Steve, can you verify this date? I prices look slightly higher than I predicted...but 4 180g LPs with 28 songs is a lot too.