I bought a Pro-Ject Debut III for RHCP Stadium Arcadium LPs

Today I bought my first ever turntable, a Pro-Ject Debut III, in anticipation for the premium vinyl release of Red Hot Chili Pepper's Stadium Arcadium.

Just for fun, I did some test recording using the turntable plugged into an ARTcessories USB Phono Plus Pre-amp & A2D converter.

Here, for your listening pleasure is an all too brief excerpt from Ramsey Lewis track Slick, from the album Salongo. I admit to having no idea who Ramsey Lewis is (I picked the track out of my Dad's collection based on the cover), but was pleasently surprised when a Weather Report style jam came blasting forth from my speakers!

I am very happy with the sound, from what is quite a modest turntable and pre-amp combo. I can't wait now to get those Stadium Arcadium LPs in my hands!

I apologise to the Gorts if this should be in the music forum. I could not decide which forum was more appropriate. And I'm a bit over excited about my buy, so I'm not thinking straight.

 

It's great to see that the Chili Peppers album has led to at least one new vinyl convert. I hope that you will enjoy many more titles besides Stadium Arcadium on your new table.

 

wow, someone buying a turntable in anticipation of a new record release, thats a new one to me. just hope you like vinyl enough not to have wasted a lot of money. good luck. i know i cant wait to get my new table, hopefully in the next few months. however i have a lot of vinyl that i own and many more i plan on getting for said new table.

 

The prospect of a well mastered copy of Stadium Arcadium was the final piece of motivation I required. RHCP are my favourite contemporary band, I have been frustrated with the sound of their CDs from the release of Californication in 1999. Now that the band and / or Warner Bros. have decided to release an audiophile version of their latest album I feel compelled to support it. Sure a digital format like Hybrid-SACD or DVD-Audio would've been better for me, especially considering I already own a compatible player. But if the band opted for premium vinyl since this was an all analog (recording, mix, master) album then I was willing to make the leap into vinyl. I'm still learning, so forgive me if I ask stupid questions.

Admitedly there were other factors, my parents have asked me to convert all their LPs (about 100) to CD. Their old turntable is broken, so I knew I would eventually need to buy one to do the job properly. Of course, I have tried to avoid doing so because the conversion will be a very time consuming process.

The final reason I bought the turntable is the fact I go to a local music fair whenver it is on, but unfortunately hardly any of the sellers have a good selection of Jazz on CD. If I find one jazz CD I'm interested in buying then that is almost a miracle. All the good jazz seems to be on vinyl, and at pretty reasonable prices too ($5 - $10 per album). So having a turntable will make it worth buying some of that.

I am however very much a person of the digital age, so if I buy something on vinyl I need an easy way to get it on my iPod, hence the phono amp I bought is more of a utilitarian device rather than a piece of audiophile equipment. But it will allow me to easily get LPs onto my computer, and from there to CD and my iPod.

 

you will be assimilated....

 

Hey congrats ShowsOn Great thing, backing your conviction with your buying power. I know of someone else who is also getting a turntable for the first time as a result of this Stadium Arcadium release, so you're not alone. That's a wonderful 'table you have too! They sound great. Enjoy the heck out of the new format that's opened to you. Please feel free to ask any questions, whether tiny and "obvious" or not.

I think your next task in really getting comfortable and getting the best out of records is finding a method of cleaning the records that'll really work for you. Can really make listens more pleasant It's a fussy, highly variable medium, with numerous "problems," but it also offers high-res sound potential and its own sonic strengths as opposed to typical CD. The selection of music out there is beyond belief. I wouldn't be without a decent vinyl playback capability, even if I detested the medium. There's so much music out there on vinyl.

Anyway, enjoy!

 

Hey mate, I think that is FANTASTIC!

 

That's excellent, I've been encouraging fans over in the official RHCP forums to support this vinyl release. Even if a few people chip in for a single copy, it will at least empty out the warehouses, which hopefully shows Warner that there is a market for premium quality, properly mastered, popular music. If it sells well, hopefully Warner Bros. will consider releasing audiophile mastered copies of their other RHCP albums as well.

There is a bootleg copy of Californication floating around that has less compressed mastering, so I think that shows that the problem with that album is the mastering, the recording and mix are fine.

The more people that listen to the vinyl version of S.A., the more they will realise how the CDs are a poor reflection of what is on the master tapes. Which I think will help the cause of better sound quality.

Initially I was going to buy a DJ turntable, some of those have built in phono pre-amps, and some even USB ports for connecting into a PC. But I realised that for just another $100 I could get a much better built turntable, so I went for the Debut III.

I was very concerned about this before buying. The store I bought from was kind enough to include a carbon fibre brush, and AM brand cleaning solution along with the turntable. However, before I start the mass conversion to CD I am strongly considering having the records professionally cleaned on a cleaning machine. Unfortunately I am struggling to find a place locally that does it, but I'll keep looking.

I've already found some good stuff in my Dad's collection, a brilliant sounding Gary Burton disc on ECM called The New Quartet (1 minute excerpt here). I also found this hilarious Andrew Lloyd Webber album called Variations, which is classical music but played in a rock fusion kind of way. Maybe a bit too much synthesiser for my liking, but still cool in a wierd way (excerpt here). I have also been able to listen to Pseudo Echo, Love An Adventure. It is an Australia synth-pop group from the 1980s, most famous for their cover of Funky Town. It happens to be the first album I ever owned. I won it at an AM radio station outside broadcast in about 1986!

I am finding that the sound quality is quite variable, some discs sound really good, others have a lot of surface noise. I am sure there is a bit more tweaking I can do to the turntable, for example I do not have a tracking force gauge, so I am going to buy one to ensure that I have that weight set correctly. Other than that, I can't wait to start scouring second hand stores looking for cheap vinyl.

Thanks! I think most people would do the same if their favourite band kept releasing poor sounding CDs, but then offered a premium quality version of the same album on vinyl. I still don't think I've 'heard' Californication 7 years after release

 

Record cleaning: it's a do it yourself thing. Even if you find a place to clean 'em, you'll do better work for much less dough. You don't have to have a machine. There are numerous threads about hand cleaning and home-made fluid / techniques if you do a search. Something often suggested for an absolute basic is: Scrub with a mix of distilled (never regular) water and a mere tidbit of dawn dish soap (some add a fraction of alchohol - ; rinse well with clean distilled water; pat dry with clean paper towel; let dry on dish rack; serve and enjoy. Use the carbon dry brush for "dusting" after the good cleaning. A friend does that and his records are fine. I should note never to use any alchohol on shellac 78 records if you ever get any as it'll ruin them, the above suggestions are for vinyl LPs & 45s. Others can make more suggestions. You'll find what works for you, and it'll make a vast improvement taming vinyl noises.

As a side benefit, you will gain more of a feel for what is "dirt" and what is damage or flaw when you go shopping for those used records. You'll find 'em in a crazy range of conditions. The "eye" and "ear" for what you can fix and what you can't will be priceless. Yes indeed the sound quality and pressing quality / condition of the vinyl out there is wildly variable from perfect horror to heavenly bliss. I've heard Australia is difficult to find good used pressings at, but then my area is a vinyl desert and I'm in California. Good luck to ya.

As for spreading awareness; I look at it on an individual basis. A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, etc. It may be doubtful that it'll have any affect on the overall situation, but each time one person gains more enjoyment from a better sounding version is one more complete success.

I find it funny when folks justify worse sound by claiming it sounds better on cheap equipment, because I have never heard such a case. The better the record sounds, including the mastering, the better it sounds no matter what I hear it played on. When a CD sounds like crapola, it always sounds like crapola no matter what I hear it played on. The justifications for maximizing and so on perplex me and seem to be trying to dispute reality. Ah well

 

When you say "scrub", what do you scrub with, and with how much force? I have the idea that LPs are very delicate, and easy to scratch in a manner that will cause audible flaws, am I over exaggerating?

This is the record cleaner that they included with the turntable:


It says that it is a 'specially formulated solution', but to me it smells like regular cleaning alcohol, perhaps just a high purity version. The included cloth is very soft, somewhat like the cloths some people use for cleaning glasses.

I have quickly realised that the carbon brush seems to only remove the surface dust and lint, I doubt it actually cleans the groove. But I guess the fact it makes the record anti-static will stop further dust from covering the surface of the record.

Yeah this is very important for me, I have been very closely visually inspecting each disc before I play them, and even watching closely during playback. I have noticed that the discs that feature a lot of clicks seem to have straches that run at right angles to the groove, so a single scratch can cover numerous successive 'laps' of the record, and hence cause the repetitious clicking.

Having said that I have a way to learn! I put on a David Bowie disc that looked very scratched (one of my Mum's favourites I've been told) but it sounded great, perhaps because it had been mastered at a much louder volume than the surface noise? I'm not quite sure...

The CD and vinyl versions of Stadium Arcadium will provide a practical demonstration of two different approaches to mastering. The CD version is as loud as possible, the LP version will be as close to the sound of the master tapes as the LP format will allow. Obviously I am just completely over joyed that there will be a properly mastered version, but also, I am excited that I will have an opportunity to demonstrate to RHCP fans the different sound quality produced when the same music is is presented using two entirely different mastering philosophies. If more people are to care about the quality of the CDs they buy, then it is important that they are provided with practical demonstrations of the differences. I actually think even teenage fans care a lot more than are given credit for. Even in the RHCP forums I read a lot of complaints, especially about Californication.

Also, I have this crazy notion that good sound quality should be for everyone, whether a person listens to classical and jazz, or rock and pop, and whether they own a very expensive hifi system, or prefer listening to music on an iPod on the way to school.

The good mastering on early 1990s RHCP albums did not seem to harm sales... do they honestly think that hyper-compression mastering of the last three albums (4 including the greatest hits compilation) improved sales?

It is crazy, we have reached a point where letting part of the signal clip is considered a legitimate artistic use of the CD format. I guess because even $100 boomboxes that can't reproduce bass give the impression of bass when they clip? Anyway, what would I know I bought a turntable to get away from that.

 

What color Debut III did you get? Shocking Red? Lime Green?

Those look so cool...

 

Apparently they don't import all the different colours in Australia, so I had to get black.

 

You'll probably be glad in the long run...

 

Just make sure they don't sell their LPs for $1 a piece at a garage sale

 

More likely they'll give it to me... Some of the stuff is good, but the country and western stuff not so much.

Now I'm gonna need to get a vinyl copy of Bitches Brew. I've never heard the original mix, only the remastered CDs. So I'm curious to hear if the original thing is significantly different...

 

Yes they are quite easy to scratch and contaminate. Yet in certain ways they're also rather tough (as they must be to have a super sharp needle run through those grooves numerous times over - that reminds me, if the record is clean, the needle isn't worn out and the arm is properly set up, one shouldn't need to worry about literally wearing out a record; I've only heard them wear from abuse like contaminants, scratches, a worn needle or lousy/misadjusted tonearm).

The key is the right kind of material. A soft cloth for instance as with that cleaner you have won't hurt it. But it might smear contaminants around and won't well reach into the grooves. There are brushes which are ideal for "scrubbing." I'm not going to pitch one particular product (without a commission hehe) but here's one proven example:
http://www.elusivedisc.com/prodinfo.asp?number=DDMRBRUSHA
Other folks prefer the Orbitrac:
http://store.acousticsounds.com/browse_detail.cfm?Title_ID=9578&section=equipment
I'm sure either one works well. If using a brush, one runs with the grooves, back and forth a few times - it doesn't take any pressure really, you're just helping the fluid lift junk out. You don't have to be horribly precise or anything. This would be for "serious" initital cleaning, with record cleaner fluid or suitable home made mix. One would next rinse the record clean with distilled water, pat it dry with a paper towel or clean cloth (just to get the worst of the distilled water off) then let it dry in say a dish rack. After this, periodic use of the carbon fiber brush when/if needed should due for a good long time to come.

I'm not familiar with that cleaner. I can suggest cleaners from Disc Doctor and Nitty Gritty as being safe and effective from personal experiences. Record cleaning isn't a strictly defined science, so I feel one should develop a way that works for them and their budgets. I'm sure folks here will help you with making your own fluid on the cheap if you have any questions.

To some it's a ritual, to others an inconvenience. I look at it this way; if a record isn't worth cleaning and cueing up on the 'table, maybe it isn't worth the time listening to

That's interesting on Bitches Brew. I've never compared either to know if there's any difference in the mix, or what kind. There are many '50's and '60's records with mono mixes noticeably different from the stereo of course. Harder to find good vinyl from back then though. I usually just run into loads of '70's stuff

 

First, thanks for your help and advice during your several replies to this thread.

I am finding huge variability in the sound reproduction that I get. Some discs are quite noisy in quiet passages, others are nearly dead quiet. However, I have invested in the Shure Scale to ensure the weight is set correctly, I don't completely trust the graduation marks on the tone arm weight.

A dedicated brush designed for the job seems like a good idea. Unfortunately it doesn't look like the Obitrac is sold locally, but I'll look into the disc doctor ones, which seem to be about AUD$60 for a pair.

I may make my own, the AM cleaning fluid just smells mainly like alcohol. I can't really afford to keep spending too much on dedicated fluids.

Good point, and since I'll be backing up these records to digital it is certainly worth the effort to clean them properly before transferring.

It was just like the first album that came to my mind that I would love to listen to in its original form. I think the CDs sound great, but it seems they had no choice but to remix the album due to deterioration in the original tape (which was full of all the different splices).

 

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm on the fence when it comes to being a fan of Chili Peppers' music - I really like some of their songs, but not all of them. I'm not sure whether I would have bought the CD of the new album or not. But I will buy the vinyl to put my money where my mouth is and encourage the major labels to keep on releasing new albums from major artists in audiophile vinyl pressings.

 

I got the basic black. I sort of wish I'd bought the red one. This turntable is easy to set up and sounds real nice after a short break-in period.

 

I noticed a difference between our turntables. Yours has the power switch on the top, where as for mine it is 'hidden' - underneath the front left edge... I wonder why they changed that?

 

Mine is underneath as well

 

One complaint I have is that Pro-Ject included an instruction manual from February 2004, which has inaccurate instructions. Fortunately I just downloaded the Feb 2006 updated instructions. But if someone wasn't an internet type, then they could've spent eons trying to adjust the tone arm counter weight by turning it the wrong way.

 

FWIW, you can add me to the list of people who will be investing in a turntable as a result of Stadium Arcadium. I'm old enough to remember when the Big Black CDs were the norm, but haven't owned a turntable since probably the late eighties.

Knowing myself, I'll probably end up spending way too much on the table, spend hours on line researching, and blow a bunch more cash on quality vinyl releases of stuff I already own(ed). Thanks a lot, RHCP

 

Wonderful!

Previous to investing in the turntable, my last recollection of LPs was putting my finger prints all over my parent's discs when I was about five. Now I am revisiting those discs and complaining that it was probably me that scratched some of them.

The Debut III seems to be a resonable turntable to start with, but obviously you can spend a heap more.

Yeah totally, I'm already tempted to start buying vinyl copies of some of my favourite Jazz albums, like Bitches Brew and Miles Smiles... this could get expensive, and of course I still haven't actually pre-ordered Stadium Arcadium on vinyl yet... But I'm probably going to get both editions...

 

My manual was the 2006 version. Strange that yours was the 2004 version...