Phil Collins Lashes Back At Complaining Fans

World of Genesis · 06-13-2004, 11:09 AM

Below is an actual post by Phil Collins addressing some comments made about his current farewell tour. I thought it was well-written and worth reading. It addresses issues commonly brought up by fans on touring set lists, and regardless of whether you like Phil Collins or not, I think he makes some great points. The actual link is listed below, so you know that I am not making this up.

Dave
________________________________________ ___________________

Dear Fans out there,

I had an idea at the beginning of this tour to check out the Website to get some REAL feedback about the shows. We all know the press don't like what I do, witness some of the recent reviews reprinted on the site!!!

Unfortunately what I found on the Website disheartened me a little. If one thing keeps rearing its head, it's 'THE SET LIST', so I'll try now to explain a couple of things about choosing a set of songs to play.

Firstly, I don't choose a set list for people who travel to multiple gigs... I choose it to be seen once, as that is the way MOST people will see it in the City I'm playing in. If people go to more than one show then they have to expect the probability of hearing the same songs. There will always be things people miss, and I've seen it mentioned a few times that people have liked it more the second time.

There's a lot to take in at one sitting. The complaint that the set is "safe" or "just hits" is a bit unfair as these are the songs that MOST people have shown to be their favourites over the years, and presumably would like to hear 'live' for the last time.

MOST bands, once they have material that is paced and in the right kind of order DO NOT change the set much from night to night. To get the pace right over 2 hours requires tweaking here and there during rehearsals and believe me, if you mess with it, it can really change the flow of the show.

WITHIN songs different stuff happens, but the sequence of songs may not change once they're in their best place. One other major point about changing the set is that it has a knock-on effect with the Lighting Cues etc. Most days it's all the crew can do to assemble the rig in time, without relighting new songs.

The list of songs in some of your set lists would have MOST people scratching their heads.... they include some of my favourite songs too, but there is nothing worse than looking into the audience and seeing a bunch of bewildered faces. I have to think of the 90% of the audience that don't spend time on the website, and just want to hear their favourite songs. In amongst all of that I do try to put in some new or different stuff if only for the band and me. I too could have put together 2 hours of material that even you guys may not have chosen, though personal favourites of mine, but I had my reasons for choosing what I did. I do though, take it as some kind of backhanded compliment that there are so many different favourites among your choices!!!

I, perhaps mistakenly, hoped that this set list would be looked at as a celebration of my music, covering a lot of what's been enjoyed by MOST people over the last 25 years or so. I have changed a few things around, contrary to some opinion, arrangement wise, and brought some songs back to the way they were originally, as well as adding some new pieces altogether.

The point though, that actually led me to write this, having held my tongue for the last few weeks about the set list, is that I don't "respect my fans", as I don't listen to their input or opinion. Some of the replies to this point were right on the money and thanks to those who jumped to my defense! I do of course have great respect for my fans.... you like what I do, which means in some ways we connect... who'd listen if you didn't!! I don't inter-react with the site, as quite honestly, I'm too busy doing the things that you end up discussing!!!!

Regarding the CD of every concert being made available via the Internet, such as Peter and The Who and others, this WAS something I was going to do... however, The Record Companies stepped in and stopped me: even I answer to someone... so there you go!!! I am obviously pissed of about this and am pursuing it, but if you want to get involved, complain to Atlantic Records in the USA...

I am not the neurotic perfectionist that people make me out to be and I can see why people would want that sort of memento, warts and all!!!

True, the Internet does not interest me as much as Peter. I could see even as far back as the Interactive CD period that you either immerse yourself in it, or you carry on and gradually absorb the technology: I chose the latter, he the former. Incidentally, something that nobody has mentioned at all considering you seem to notice everything, is that we change the language every night for the statistics in Paradise... every night we have the city we're playing in on the 'Take me Home' screen...so the show is not static at all.

Frankly I'm really bored with the continuing comparison of Pete and myself. We're great friends that once played in a band together 30 odd years ago... aside from that we have no reason to be compared to each other.

Finally, it is my dog Jack that participates in 'Wear My Hat', and it's not loud on stage, just a bit warm for his feet!!

This tour IS the last tour.... I will play on stage again, but not for months at a time, like this. Again some of you have responded sympathetically to this. As you know, I have a young Son who I will be taking to school. As some of you have also pointed out, I did say I wouldn't Tour as I'd been advised not to due to the hearing loss. So this tour is something of a bonus. I just thought it would be nice to go out one last time, play everybody's favourites and say 'goodbye', and I'm really enjoying it, as are the audiences so far.

Most of what I've read on the site is just good old discussion...but I felt I had to straighten a few rants and theory's out. I don't want to indulge in a great debate here either, I'm putting my thoughts and reasons to you, and I know already what some of you think!!!

I suppose the old adage of "you can't please everyone" is as true today as it was when someone first said it...

Meanwhile, we'll keep on keeping on.... hoping that you'll still be there...

Much love, and relax, enjoy it, it won't be here forever!!

Phil (the singing drummer)
« Last Edit: Jun 11th, 2004, 3:08pm by PC Webmaster »

http://www.philcollins.co.uk/cgi-bin...num=1086973664

Sckott · 06-13-2004, 11:17 AM

Gee, you would think people would just enjoy the tour and what it had to offer rather than slag Phil for not being Peter.

Phil has proved some big things over two decades. Are they expecting him to do everything that Peter does? Come on.

jroyen · 06-13-2004, 11:23 AM

Nice to see an artist who is both so incredibly forthright and sincere.

Chip Stylus · 06-13-2004, 11:25 AM

With concert prices these days, even speaking as a non-Phil Collins fan (per se), I'd want to hear every hit he ever had, straight in a row! Who's gonna see him 6 nights on the tour, other than his roadies? Maybe 1/2 of one percent of his audience, that's who.

Shame the label for not letting him "bootleg" himself. What would it cost them? Not bloody much!

Holy Zoo · 06-13-2004, 11:37 AM

Great letter. I'd not call it "lashing back" though -- he was thoughtful and sincere.

**Mark** · 06-13-2004, 11:39 AM

BTW, anybody know a site for his set lists and reviews?

pdenny · 06-13-2004, 12:05 PM

Phil's a relatively young guy. I predict he'll have as many "retirement" tours as Sinatra did! ;-)

StyxCollector · 06-13-2004, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdenny

Phil's a relatively young guy. I predict he'll have as many "retirement" tours as Sinatra did! ;-)

Actually, no. His hearing problem is well documented and he just can't do these types of extensive tours anymore. I suspect you may see short things and one offs, but no more global 6 mo - 1 yr tours anymore. Maybe a month and that's it.

Bill · 06-13-2004, 01:33 PM

With a few exceptions, Phil Collins' music has never been my cup of tea. However, his message reveals a sincerity and caring for his fans that I would never have expected for a "superstar" of his wattage. Far from "lashing back," he really seems to give a **** about the people that are coming (and paying) to see him. I'm waiting from something like this from, say, Henley and Frey.
May be time for an agonizing reappraisal of Mr. Collins' music for me.

JWB · 06-13-2004, 01:33 PM

I was expecting a scathing diatribe, based on the thread title.

btomarra · 06-13-2004, 01:42 PM

Well, I always liked Phil Collins. Now after reading his thoughts, I like and respect the guy even more!

Brian

JonUrban · 06-13-2004, 01:46 PM

IT's nice to hear directly from an artist. It is true that concert by artists with a deep and long catalog tend to be "Hit Shows", with the true fan having to forego hearing the album cuts and forgotten songs that they would REALLY like to hear. Unfortunately, these concerts are more for the "average" fan and not the die-hard.

If Phil sang two hits and 20 album cuts, he'd get killed. He HAS to sing the hits.

This is why whenever I hear a bootleg concert recording of a favorite "mature" performer, I tend to appreciate the ones that were given at the START of their career as opposed to those more current. At the beginning, the hits were fewer and the set list was a lot more interesting.

For artists who tour on every album, a real fan can "create" a "dream" set list by combining concerts from each tour, as usually there are 4 or 5 songs from the "new" album. This can create quite a cache of tunes that probably will never be played live again. Of course, we are dependant upon someone recording these concerts and finding them.

As for selling the live recordings after the concert, it sounds like a "Clear Channel" thing to me. Atlantic probably wants to market a live CD, and does not want to compete with these discs. A Phil fan who buys the CD of the concert (s)he attended is not going to run down to Media Play and buy the official tour CD.

bartels76 · 06-13-2004, 02:17 PM

Phil Collins the solo artist is not a jam band. He SHOULD play the Hits.
What the heck are people complaining about??

Evan L · 06-13-2004, 02:20 PM

ANY artist in Phil's position has to play the hits. Look at McCartney!

Evan

StyxCollector · 06-13-2004, 03:54 PM

It's like some of the Rush fans complaining the set list this tour doesn't have enough chestnuts. Yeesh! Like they're going to drop "Tom Sawyer"!

As for Phil, I've seen him every tour (including the big band tour of the USA), and he never fails to put on a good show, even for albums I didn't necessarily love (Dance Into The Light, Both Sides). I'm glad he decided to give it one more go, and I feel kinda sad for him since now he probably feels the world is against him.

olsen · 06-13-2004, 04:36 PM

These fan discussion sites can get so crazy. In '02 the WHO's board - which contained many folks following the band around - bitched high and low about the static set list. This after the band was attempting so quickly to carry on after the death of Entwistle.

JohnG · 06-13-2004, 05:08 PM

If I was seeing Phil on this tour...I would also want the hits. No big deal.

Maybe someday Genesis will reunite for one last grand tour.

World of Genesis · 06-13-2004, 07:39 PM

SPOLIERS ON THE SET LIST...

This is supposedly the set list:

Something Happened On The Way To Heaven
Against All Odds
A Groovy Kind Of Love
One More Night
Don't Lose My Number
You'll Be In My Heart
Can't Stop Loving You
No Way Out
Another Day In Paradise
Separate Lives
You Can't Hurry Love
Two Hearts
Dance Into The Light
Wear My Hat
Sussudio
Take Me Home

ENCORE:
I Missed Again
In The Air Tonight

Evan L · 06-13-2004, 07:46 PM

That set list is solid hits. Sounds like an enjoyable show to me!

Evan

romanotrax · 06-13-2004, 09:03 PM

[quote=World of Genesis]SPOLIERS ON THE SET LIST...

If thats's true I have 2 comments....

1) Seems like kind of a short show
2) Lots of ballads... I know thats what Phil does now but 6 ballads in an 18 songs show seems a little excessive (especially the 1-2-3 punch of Against All Odds, A Groovy Kind Of Love, One More Night basically opening the show.

just my 2 cents...

06-13-2004, 11:09 AM	#1
World of Genesis Forum Addict Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,571	Phil Collins Lashes Back At Complaining Fans Below is an actual post by Phil Collins addressing some comments made about his current farewell tour. I thought it was well-written and worth reading. It addresses issues commonly brought up by fans on touring set lists, and regardless of whether you like Phil Collins or not, I think he makes some great points. The actual link is listed below, so you know that I am not making this up. Dave ________________________________________ ___________________ Dear Fans out there, I had an idea at the beginning of this tour to check out the Website to get some REAL feedback about the shows. We all know the press don't like what I do, witness some of the recent reviews reprinted on the site!!! Unfortunately what I found on the Website disheartened me a little. If one thing keeps rearing its head, it's 'THE SET LIST', so I'll try now to explain a couple of things about choosing a set of songs to play. Firstly, I don't choose a set list for people who travel to multiple gigs... I choose it to be seen once, as that is the way MOST people will see it in the City I'm playing in. If people go to more than one show then they have to expect the probability of hearing the same songs. There will always be things people miss, and I've seen it mentioned a few times that people have liked it more the second time. There's a lot to take in at one sitting. The complaint that the set is "safe" or "just hits" is a bit unfair as these are the songs that MOST people have shown to be their favourites over the years, and presumably would like to hear 'live' for the last time. MOST bands, once they have material that is paced and in the right kind of order DO NOT change the set much from night to night. To get the pace right over 2 hours requires tweaking here and there during rehearsals and believe me, if you mess with it, it can really change the flow of the show. WITHIN songs different stuff happens, but the sequence of songs may not change once they're in their best place. One other major point about changing the set is that it has a knock-on effect with the Lighting Cues etc. Most days it's all the crew can do to assemble the rig in time, without relighting new songs. The list of songs in some of your set lists would have MOST people scratching their heads.... they include some of my favourite songs too, but there is nothing worse than looking into the audience and seeing a bunch of bewildered faces. I have to think of the 90% of the audience that don't spend time on the website, and just want to hear their favourite songs. In amongst all of that I do try to put in some new or different stuff if only for the band and me. I too could have put together 2 hours of material that even you guys may not have chosen, though personal favourites of mine, but I had my reasons for choosing what I did. I do though, take it as some kind of backhanded compliment that there are so many different favourites among your choices!!! I, perhaps mistakenly, hoped that this set list would be looked at as a celebration of my music, covering a lot of what's been enjoyed by MOST people over the last 25 years or so. I have changed a few things around, contrary to some opinion, arrangement wise, and brought some songs back to the way they were originally, as well as adding some new pieces altogether. The point though, that actually led me to write this, having held my tongue for the last few weeks about the set list, is that I don't "respect my fans", as I don't listen to their input or opinion. Some of the replies to this point were right on the money and thanks to those who jumped to my defense! I do of course have great respect for my fans.... you like what I do, which means in some ways we connect... who'd listen if you didn't!! I don't inter-react with the site, as quite honestly, I'm too busy doing the things that you end up discussing!!!! Regarding the CD of every concert being made available via the Internet, such as Peter and The Who and others, this WAS something I was going to do... however, The Record Companies stepped in and stopped me: even I answer to someone... so there you go!!! I am obviously pissed of about this and am pursuing it, but if you want to get involved, complain to Atlantic Records in the USA... I am not the neurotic perfectionist that people make me out to be and I can see why people would want that sort of memento, warts and all!!! True, the Internet does not interest me as much as Peter. I could see even as far back as the Interactive CD period that you either immerse yourself in it, or you carry on and gradually absorb the technology: I chose the latter, he the former. Incidentally, something that nobody has mentioned at all considering you seem to notice everything, is that we change the language every night for the statistics in Paradise... every night we have the city we're playing in on the 'Take me Home' screen...so the show is not static at all. Frankly I'm really bored with the continuing comparison of Pete and myself. We're great friends that once played in a band together 30 odd years ago... aside from that we have no reason to be compared to each other. Finally, it is my dog Jack that participates in 'Wear My Hat', and it's not loud on stage, just a bit warm for his feet!! This tour IS the last tour.... I will play on stage again, but not for months at a time, like this. Again some of you have responded sympathetically to this. As you know, I have a young Son who I will be taking to school. As some of you have also pointed out, I did say I wouldn't Tour as I'd been advised not to due to the hearing loss. So this tour is something of a bonus. I just thought it would be nice to go out one last time, play everybody's favourites and say 'goodbye', and I'm really enjoying it, as are the audiences so far. Most of what I've read on the site is just good old discussion...but I felt I had to straighten a few rants and theory's out. I don't want to indulge in a great debate here either, I'm putting my thoughts and reasons to you, and I know already what some of you think!!! I suppose the old adage of "you can't please everyone" is as true today as it was when someone first said it... Meanwhile, we'll keep on keeping on.... hoping that you'll still be there... Much love, and relax, enjoy it, it won't be here forever!! Phil (the singing drummer) « Last Edit: Jun 11th, 2004, 3:08pm by PC Webmaster » http://www.philcollins.co.uk/cgi-bin...num=1086973664 __________________ Have you been to WorldofGenesis.com today?

06-13-2004, 11:25 AM	#4
Chip Stylus Semi-vinylist! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: FEED YOUR HEAD MUSIC, Atlanta GA Posts: 8,876	With concert prices these days, even speaking as a non-Phil Collins fan (per se), I'd want to hear every hit he ever had, straight in a row! Who's gonna see him 6 nights on the tour, other than his roadies? Maybe 1/2 of one percent of his audience, that's who. Shame the label for not letting him "bootleg" himself. What would it cost them? Not bloody much! __________________ (the above is just an opinion) http://purgeatl.com/2010/05/10/feed-your-head-music/

06-13-2004, 11:37 AM	#5
Holy Zoo Gort (Retired) :-) Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Santa Cruz Posts: 4,292	Great letter. I'd not call it "lashing back" though -- he was thoughtful and sincere. __________________ "Wenn ist das Nunstuck git und slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das oder die flipperwald gersput!"

06-13-2004, 11:39 AM	#6
Mark I Am Gort, Hear Me Roar Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Connecticut-The College Basketball Capital of the World Posts: 7,620	BTW, anybody know a site for his set lists and reviews? __________________ Mark "Some people are New York or London or-God help them-Los Angeles. I am Hartford. -- Katharine Hepburn.

06-13-2004, 01:33 PM	#9
Bill Forum All Star Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington Posts: 3,507	With a few exceptions, Phil Collins' music has never been my cup of tea. However, his message reveals a sincerity and caring for his fans that I would never have expected for a "superstar" of his wattage. Far from "lashing back," he really seems to give a **** about the people that are coming (and paying) to see him. I'm waiting from something like this from, say, Henley and Frey. May be time for an agonizing reappraisal of Mr. Collins' music for me. __________________ Bill

06-13-2004, 11:17 AM	#2
Sckott Goodbye. Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: MA Posts: 19,949	Gee, you would think people would just enjoy the tour and what it had to offer rather than slag Phil for not being Peter. Phil has proved some big things over two decades. Are they expecting him to do everything that Peter does? Come on.

06-13-2004, 11:23 AM	#3
jroyen Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: New York City Posts: 467	Nice to see an artist who is both so incredibly forthright and sincere.

06-13-2004, 12:05 PM	#7
pdenny I have several vinyls Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: 123 Happy Lane Posts: 9,971	Phil's a relatively young guy. I predict he'll have as many "retirement" tours as Sinatra did! ;-)

06-13-2004, 01:33 PM	#10
JWB Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Hazleton, Pennsylvania Posts: 3,612	I was expecting a scathing diatribe, based on the thread title.

06-13-2004, 01:42 PM	#11
btomarra Extreme Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Little Rock, AR Posts: 3,061	Well, I always liked Phil Collins. Now after reading his thoughts, I like and respect the guy even more! Brian

06-13-2004, 01:46 PM	#12
JonUrban SHF Member #497 Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Connecticut Posts: 8,122	IT's nice to hear directly from an artist. It is true that concert by artists with a deep and long catalog tend to be "Hit Shows", with the true fan having to forego hearing the album cuts and forgotten songs that they would REALLY like to hear. Unfortunately, these concerts are more for the "average" fan and not the die-hard. If Phil sang two hits and 20 album cuts, he'd get killed. He HAS to sing the hits. This is why whenever I hear a bootleg concert recording of a favorite "mature" performer, I tend to appreciate the ones that were given at the START of their career as opposed to those more current. At the beginning, the hits were fewer and the set list was a lot more interesting. For artists who tour on every album, a real fan can "create" a "dream" set list by combining concerts from each tour, as usually there are 4 or 5 songs from the "new" album. This can create quite a cache of tunes that probably will never be played live again. Of course, we are dependant upon someone recording these concerts and finding them. As for selling the live recordings after the concert, it sounds like a "Clear Channel" thing to me. Atlantic probably wants to market a live CD, and does not want to compete with these discs. A Phil fan who buys the CD of the concert (s)he attended is not going to run down to Media Play and buy the official tour CD. __________________ "We were staying up all night giving the days away. And the music was flowing, amazing and blowing my way." :-jon

06-13-2004, 02:17 PM	#13
bartels76 Forum Hall Of Fame Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: CT Posts: 9,784	Phil Collins the solo artist is not a jam band. He SHOULD play the Hits. What the heck are people complaining about?? __________________ Shawn "We need more cowbell!"

06-13-2004, 02:20 PM	#14
Evan L Forum Legend Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Maine Posts: 16,030	ANY artist in Phil's position has to play the hits. Look at McCartney! Evan __________________ "It's easy to be a genius. All you have to do is say everything stinks; that way, you're never wrong!"

06-13-2004, 03:54 PM	#15
StyxCollector Man of Miracles Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: The Grove of Eglantine Posts: 5,388	It's like some of the Rush fans complaining the set list this tour doesn't have enough chestnuts. Yeesh! Like they're going to drop "Tom Sawyer"! As for Phil, I've seen him every tour (including the big band tour of the USA), and he never fails to put on a good show, even for albums I didn't necessarily love (Dance Into The Light, Both Sides). I'm glad he decided to give it one more go, and I feel kinda sad for him since now he probably feels the world is against him.

06-13-2004, 04:36 PM	#16
olsen Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: los angeles Posts: 781	These fan discussion sites can get so crazy. In '02 the WHO's board - which contained many folks following the band around - bitched high and low about the static set list. This after the band was attempting so quickly to carry on after the death of Entwistle.

06-13-2004, 05:08 PM	#17
JohnG Let's Go Jets!! Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 15,226	If I was seeing Phil on this tour...I would also want the hits. No big deal. Maybe someday Genesis will reunite for one last grand tour. __________________ You can't have everything. Where would you put it? - Steven Wright JohnG

06-13-2004, 07:39 PM	#18
World of Genesis Forum Addict Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: USA Posts: 1,571	SPOLIERS ON THE SET LIST... This is supposedly the set list: Something Happened On The Way To Heaven Against All Odds A Groovy Kind Of Love One More Night Don't Lose My Number You'll Be In My Heart Can't Stop Loving You No Way Out Another Day In Paradise Separate Lives You Can't Hurry Love Two Hearts Dance Into The Light Wear My Hat Sussudio Take Me Home ENCORE: I Missed Again In The Air Tonight __________________ Have you been to WorldofGenesis.com today?

06-13-2004, 07:46 PM	#19
Evan L Forum Legend Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Maine Posts: 16,030	That set list is solid hits. Sounds like an enjoyable show to me! Evan __________________ "It's easy to be a genius. All you have to do is say everything stinks; that way, you're never wrong!"

06-13-2004, 09:03 PM	#20
romanotrax Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Aurora IL Posts: 959	[quote=World of Genesis]SPOLIERS ON THE SET LIST... If thats's true I have 2 comments.... 1) Seems like kind of a short show 2) Lots of ballads... I know thats what Phil does now but 6 ballads in an 18 songs show seems a little excessive (especially the 1-2-3 punch of Against All Odds, A Groovy Kind Of Love, One More Night basically opening the show. just my 2 cents...

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