Who Really Played on Hurdy Gurdy Man?!?!

Ok, so I'm leisurely reading the liners for the expanded "Hurdy Gurdy Man" by Donovan last night and John Paul Jones said neither Page nor Bonham played on it. Nor Alan Holdsworth, either. I've listened and listened for years and there are not 2 sets of drums on that record,(the orig story I heard is Bonham overdubbed the "fills" - that's all it is! - and it doesn't sound Bonham to me) nor any bleed thru of another set. Jones arranged the session and said it's Clem Clatini on drums and Alan Parker on lead guitar. Donovan himself musta been very whacked not to remember, but he sure likes to give Bonham/Page credit. Bugs me. It DOES sound like Page in places, but this guy ain't as sloppy, and that silly high passage just before last chorus is mixed out of the single) I recall Donovan said the tamboura used on HGM was the same as the one on "Getting Better" on Sgt Pepper's... which is probably true cos they're both in "G" and tambouras are funny that way. They're usually tuned C#. Let's get to the bottom of this.
One more thing: the 45 mono mix is a radically different mix. Better. My ghod they musta had some good hashish... or is this a rabid case of names hitting the floor?! Sheesh? Or probably Donovan wasn't there for the guitar solo O.d.
If I'm intense, sorry. This kinda stuff really rankles and this is absolutely one of the best records ever made. I'm gonna google those 2 players right now.
Am I alone on this one?!

Love from Rick Harper

 

Not alone. I've always thought someone should have the answer...

 

FWIW, from Songfacts:

Over the years Donovan has mentioned various people as playing on this track. It is now understood to be as follows according to John Paul Jones (who did play bass and book the session players) as:

Donovan on Acoustic Guitar, Tambura and vocals
Alan Parker on Electric Guitar
John Paul Jones on Bass and Musical Director
Clem Cattini on Drums

John Bonham, Allan Holdsworth and Jimmy Page were not involved with this song, Jeff Beck according to Page did play on one version which was wiped. Jimmy Page has said, "I know it's rumored that I played on that, but I didn't - and the most bizarre part about this whole story I heard about this story actually when I was in USA, it was about the time we were talking about the deal with Led Zeppelin. We were at Miami with Jerry Wexler. And I heard about the story by there and then, across from England, and on the shores over here. And what the story was - and it's very true. That they had Jeff Beck go in, and Jeff Beck played on it, and the producer decided to wipe the track. And Donovan had asked for me to do it, but of course I wasn't there. And they had a guitarist, he basically filled, you know. He went into the session - and I wouldn't say filled my shoes - but he went in the door, and his name was Alan Parker. I mean, none of you even know of him. It's not the film producer. But anyway, he's the guy who played the guitar solo, so you know, as you say, some people might have thought Beck did it, or me, but it was neither of us. But I think it was tragic that Beck got wiped off. That was absolutely crazy. They just decided that they didn't like what he did. And I mean, perish the thought, you know."

http://www.songfacts.com/detail.php?id=1097

 

ok. I googled it. It was Parker and Clatini. There is no excuse, Mr. Leitch!
Jones booked the session and hired the musicians. Said it was a full 2 years before he met Bonham.

Forgive my wrath. Pfuey! It's like hearing Scotty Moore didn't play the solo on "Hound Dog" or something. Anybody wanna buy some Donovan records. Just kidding. Maybe.

rharper

 

The only other case that got to me like this was when you see interviews with McCartney taking all the gloating credit for "Mull of Kyntyre" - when Denny Lane really wrote it, sang it... and was paid off. That was the biggest selling 45 in the UK for years! Maybe forever! Don't wanna say he's telling a lie... but people in glass houses... doesn't know what brand of strings he uses, inDEED... Beatles remasters pfuey! Don't lie! Ya get caught in the end!

I'm going to bed!


everyone have a good, safe and perhaps somewhat SOMBER Memorial Day, ok?

rick harper.

 

I don't know who played on the song, but it is a weird one. I love Sunshine Superman, too.

 

Alan Parker was the guitarist for Blue Mink, which matches what I always heard about HGM. He was the guy.

 

Page did do other Donovan sessions, right?

 

It's a shame that Page said that. Parker's a famous and respected session guy, like Chris Spedding. He also plays guitar on Gainsbourg's "Melody Nelson" and it doesn't get cooler than that.

 

I don't think he meant it as a put down of Parker, but rather a comment on how the media don't know Parker.

Donovan has taken to claiming he was sort of responsible for Led Zeppelin getting together by suggesting 3/4 of the band was there. It might help sales, but it just wasn't so. Jones and Page didn't even meet Bonham till late summer 1968 yet the song was recorded in April!

 

He played on "Sunshine Superman" with Jones. Jones played on many other Donovan sessions.

 

I think that's what led to the rumours.

I do think the drums sound like Bonham, and the guitar is reminiscent of Page's work for Joe Cocker.

Maybe Page and Bonham's work simply wasn't as unique as we now think, and other session players could provide similar material when required.

Shock horror! But maybe...

 

Actually, what led to the rumors is the following quote from Jimmy Page himself:

"I was working at the sessions for Donovan's 'Hurdy Gurdy Man' and John Paul Jones was looking after the musical arrangements."

Plus this quote from Donovan:

"'Hurdy Gurdy Man' featured a certain Mr. James Patrick Page and the soon-to-be Led Zeppelin rhythm section, John Paul Jones and John Bonham"

 

I never said they were "unique"! EVER... Page is a sloppy drunk compared to Beck. And the Cocker record was a couple YEARS away.... Page was a very very competant session guy. I'll bet that's him on "Epistle To Dippy" but I wouldn't count on it...
Drums sound like Clem C. being told to overplay. Sounds more like Davy Graham. Probably Most's doing. Always loved the drum sound on "Cosmic Wheels" as well. Another Most production. Why do I bother? I don't think Bonham ever made a record before Zep, did he?

Read an article in dirty Linen years ago and a guy w/ a Hurdy Gurdy went backstage at a Donovan concert to get him to autograph it. Maybe he was just being coy but he said "So THAT's what one looks like!"

Jai Guru Dev

rh

 

Never heard this (that Denny Laine wrote and sang "Mull of Kintyre" before) -- has anyone else other than Rick?

And I'm not casting aspersions on Rick, since he had the real "Hurdy Gurdy" session line-up down cold.

 

The Cocker LP was actually recorded in early 1968 and didn't get released until the following year.

 

Clem Cattini ought to be better known, too. Check out his Wikipedia entry for the list of forty-five U.K. number one songs he played on. The same article says he was considered for the drum seat for Led Zeppelin before they chose Bonham, and that he was asked to join after Bonham's death.

 

The writing credits have always listed both McCartney and Laine, but I have no idea what contributions each made.

I noticed this statement in Laine's Wiki entry,

 

Hi may have been on a list to join before Zeppelin (actually B.J. Wilson was much higher on the same list) but I've never heard anything about his being considered after Bonham died. After they lost Bonzo, there was no intention of continuing the band with any drummer. Page tried to form a new band with Chris Squire and Alan White, but Plant decided to pursue his solo career and Squire and White went with the Rabin-period Yes reunion (plus Page was in no shape to launch a new band at that time).

Remember that while Wikipedia is a tremendous tool, it's also subject to biased or factually incorrect information.

 

This is the correct line-up. Donovan has contradicted himself about who played on Hurdy Gurdy Man, in his book saying it was 3/4 of Led Zep, but in an audio interview on NPR said that he had originally asked Hendrix to do it, and since he was unable to do it, he had another "boy" do it: "But the boy who done it, done a great job." If that boy was Jimmy Page, you'd better believe Donovan would have said it.

 

Funny, I have the original yellow label mono 45 mix and, while I hear some differences, I don't hear anything radically different. Can you elaborate on what specific differences you're hearing? Thanks.

 

Is the mono mix available on CD anywhere?

 

It is on the Rhino CD "History of British Rock, volume 8"

http://www.amazon.com/British-Invas...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1243177876&sr=8-2

 

OK. I wish I knew where I read the Mull of Kyntyre thing, but I don't. It may have been in that tacky article or book by Lane's very bitter at the time ex-wife. It may even be in the big bio. All I know is I have the exact same record (a tape, of course) of the song w/ Lane singing the lead. I didn't realize Lane had co-authorship on the record. Still, McCartney buying him out is somehow catty to me. I'm not in an anti-McCartney mode, believe me (I just wish he'd throw that Hofner into a fire!) but the Donovan thing really ticked me off. I've always considered Mr. Leitch one notch above the rest, somehow, and it's my fault. Spiritual and all that. Never follow leaders. I meant no bad vibes or anything. But I do know that somewhere there is an article that said Lane wrote the Scots song, and was pressured into selling it... I'm gonna go look at the 45, see w/ my own dimming eyes who got credit. I did. Yer right: McCartney-Laine. Published by MPL. And it was the Bside! Laine shoulda kept it, yes? I'm reminded of Hunter Thompson's quote in another's post here. I wanna hang that on my wall!

Jai Guru Dev

r harper

 

Yeah, I'm eating crow today. Well, it's radical to me. I never liked the stereo mix. The balance of the tamboura is much different (maybe I shouldn't say "much"); the "moan" just after the 1st chorus is either absent or way down in mix; and the solo is minus the high blue-cheer-like riff when it "stops" just before the last choruses and fade. Or maybe it's also just way down. I'm having to go by memory here. I can't find the thing right now or I'd play it all day. I remember how much I liked the Bside "Teen Angel" which Donovan "said" was the 1st song he ever wrote.

And thanx for not jumping on my case! Probably deserve it...

rick again