Who Really Played on Hurdy Gurdy Man?!?!

It's Don that always periodically goes on about Page and Bonham being on the track. Never happened, but remember that sometimes rock stars never let a few facts interfere with a good story.

Page has NEVER said he played on it and has always respectfully given credit where credit's due. He did once say 'I wish I had played on it.'

That's it.

 

I have always loved this song, and was crazy about the whole sound of the record and especially the divine fuzz guitar parts. I too was convinced that it was either Page or Beck (can't remember if I read this or came to my own authoritative conclusion unhindered by actual information). Alan Parker - who knew!? Cheers for Mr. Parker; he laid down guitar for the ages on this one.

Rick - I just gave a listen for the "Blue Cheer" part you don't care for - is it that swoopy little thing at the very end of the solo? In any case, I love every note! (No accounting for taste, or arguing about it either!)

 

Here is a sample of Hurdy Gurdy Man in mono:

http://www.4shared.com/file/107490010/89a39bfb/Hurdy_Gurdy_Man_-_Donovan__mono_45_.html

 

While we're on the subject, has the single mix of Hurdy Gurdy Man ever been issued on CD?

 

It is a question of taste. I don't care for it. But I heard and listened to the 45 a thousand times probably before I heard the stereo... probably YEARS later. It's all just a subjective pop music thing. Deep breaths, deep breaths! Ha! I feel strangely unnerved by this darn thing. Maybe it's cause I've been a TM'er for 34 years (God bless David Lynch!) and I somehow felt cheated. That's kind of my "themesong" for TM (besides "Across The Universe")... So I'm gonna go do it again now. But first I WILL find that 45! Ooh I'll bet it's go' be scratchy!

Rick Again

(I know there's gotta be people smiling at these posts... like me on the guy who can't admit Macca's tapping his foot in time to "Blackbird"... "scratched the master"?!) He claims he knows people at EMI. So do I. But not in 1968!

jai guru dev

 

The stereo album version is the same length as the 45, and the mono single mix has been released on two collections that I know of:

Flower Power - The Music of the Love Generation Box Set (Time Life)

History of British Rock Vol. 8 (Rhino) as mentioned by MikeP5877

 

Thanks, Thinkfist, for the mono version - I actually did a comparison - much more empirical than my usual foggy recollections.

I like them both, nothing leapt out at me....except, Rick, I couldn't find any missing notes in the mono guitar solo. Oh well...

 

By hook or by crook, i just listened to the mono version. Though no notes are missing on the mono the guitar is much more out front on the stereo, the half-note chorus double bends are LOUD on the stereo in comparison. those last notes are there but def not as hot in the mix in mono. There's more drums, ac guitar (maybe 2) and the tamboura isn't as loud. The second voice in mono is ALMOST missing. No definition on bass on either version.. But I think the mono is an overall better mix. Whew! Folks, I am DONE on this issue!! That's a great guitar solo. Love the way he skirts around w/ the Indian thing whilst keeping the melody in there. Parker should get a medal. So should Clem.

O Man....

RHarper!

 

Thanks for that!

"perish the thought", I like that phrase!

 

Completely off topic but if you listen to the melody and look at the chord progession of thesong it reminds me of BOTH Macca and Laine. Laine elected to take the pay off because he needed the money but Macca certainly could have been more generous and given him the money against the royalities while allowing him to retain some of the rights to thesong.

 

I've always thought the solo on HGM sounds much more like Clapton on While My Guitar Gently Weeps, with those slow, almost delayed bends. The phrasing sounds nothing like Jimmy Page circa 1968. You can hear a direct progression from the Yardbirds' Little Games album through those tracks Page plays on from the Cocker album and through the first Led Zeppelin album (for example some of the solo runs in Think About It also appear in the main solo on Dzed and Confused. Plus, if anyone's heard the Yardbirds at the Anderson Theatre album, Page's live playing in that era used the same phrasings. While the fuzz tone on the Anderson Theatre album is similar to Parker's on Hurdy Gurdy Man, again the phrasing is completely different.

 

Great list!

Ones that were news to me:

- "Something in the Air" - Thunderclap Newman - always thought that was Speedy Keen.

-The T. Rex singles...I thought that was Bill "Legend".

And, I always thought that Bobby Graham played on the early Talmy produced Kinks singles. Actually, I still believe that.

 

This thread got me inspired to dig through my 45s today. I found out I had an original copy of the single "The Hurdy Gurdy Man" in super clean shape (also have the original picture sleeve with the drawing on the cover). I had never heard this mix before so it was a complete surprise hearing this song in a different way. I don't like the fact that the tamboura (??) isn't mixed as high on the single. The song loses some of its "spook" with the tamboura cut down in the mix.

 

Yeah, it's definitely Bobby Graham on "You Really Got Me". Clem's first Kinks session was October 1965 -- also the first Kinks session for Nicky Hopkins.

However, Clem does hold the distinction of actually playing live with The Kinks -- which he did for a couple shows in 1966 when Mick Avory got sick.

 

Related, a thread from early last year about guitarist Alan Parker...

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=145610&highlight=alan+parker

Dr. Weber

 

Clem Cattini interview mentions Hurdy Gurdy

Michael Shelley from WFMU did a great interview with Clem Cattini where he talks about playing on Hurdy Gurdy Man as well as some of the Kinks records.

If interested go to
http://www.wfmu.org/playlists/SH
look for the interview from 2/2/08
The real audio link plays the whole radio show, but the interview starts
1hr 31 min into show.

Yesterday, Michael did an interview with Big Jim Sullivan that you can find on the same webpage.

If you love 60's british music, you'll enjoy these interviews!

 

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3385143&postcount=5

 

Although the sources quoted are most likely correct, Don still insists that Page was on the sessions. In fact, on the recent DVD, "Sunshine Superman: the Journey of Donovan," Don mentions that he and Mickie Most were intrigued by Jimmy's creation of a kind of "Celtic rock" sound on the "Hurdy Gurdy Man" track, and recalls instructing Jimmy to just "keep on playing." Oh well....It's amazing what a combination of substances, selective memory, or perhaps (as has been suggested) the desire for increased sales will do to the facts. In this case, it's particularly annoying, as the great "Hurdy" track is undoubtedly one of the most important recordings of the '60s.

 

Unless he was pulling the wool over our eyes, Donovan was very much anti-drug by the time of "Hurdy Gurdy Man." The Gift From a Flower to a Garden album contained a specific plea from him for folks to forswear drugs.

 

but page says he wasn't!

 

Don is just using creative license for his stage banter. He worked with half of Zeppelin in that era and HGM was a huge song that needs a good story to go with it.

Lots of Casino acts inflate their importance and connections to history. This case is odd since Don doesn't need to do so. I do think he has just cause to feel underappreciated, and his live fee is probably way lower than it currently should be.

 

(Emphasis mine, above)......
3 words; hit, nail, head.

 

Not to change the subject too much, but I also still can't believe that's Page soloing on "Sunshine Superman." I know it's been documented to be him, but that solo is uncannily reminiscent of the slightly hamfisted lead style George Harrison had at the time when he was called on to improvise. Almost sounds like Page is imitating Harrison.

 

But arguing for it being Page is the bit with the volume control knob that's heard just as the instrumental break goes to the V. That was a trick Page used more than once in his Yardbirds days (e.g., "Glimpses").

Yeah, Harrison used a volume pedal on "I Need You" and "Yes It Is," but the effect was different in Page's hands.

 

As I said, I'm not disputing that it's Page, just saying it sounds more like Harrison to me.