Cart aligned, but looks crooked.

So I'm aligning my first cart! My previous cart was a KAB Stanton Groovemaster, which is integrated so I didn't have to do any actual work getting it setup. So now I have the AT440MLa. I set it up using the technics overhang gauge. I used not only my eye to align it from the side and from the front, but also various stiff pieces of paper and other materials to make sure the needle lined up as perfectly as possible on the overhang gauge null point.

The cartridge sounds fantastic, it tracks like a champion, but it looks crooked coming out of the headshell! For some reason I thought the sides of the cart would be parallel with the lines of the headshell, but when I do line them up parallel, the needle is way off to the left on the gauge. Here is a pic (very large pic once you click it):



So is this okay/normal? I've must have pulled it off and checked it on the overhang gauge at least ten times the past couple of days, so finally I'm turning to you all for advice. Thanks.

 

if it aligns properly using whatever method you used, don't worry about how it looks.

 

Thanks! That is what I needed to hear.

 

I also have the 440MLa for my AT-PL120, but havent installed it yet. I downloaded a printable protractor but dont have an overhang gauge yet. I'm looking to install my cart myself as well.

 

Judging by the picture it is not aligned correctly. Use the alignment gauge to set the overhang, not the side-to-side position. The cart should be more or less parallel to sides of the headshell.

 

Mine is aligned and is not parallel to the sides of the headshell.

 

If the protractor has two null points, and you slide the cart backwards & forwards to get as good an alignment as possible at *both* points, then bingo, you've set the overhang.


And yes, this means sometimes the cart will be crooked in the headshell for this to happen. You are looking for the cart to be square with the path of the groove at two specific points on your protractor; the sides of the headshell aren't the top priority. I've got two cartridges that I swap around on my Dual 505-2; both are aligned with the Stevenson method at present. My Ortofon OM appears to be square in the headshell, but my Audio Technica 110-E is slightly skewed.

 

Hello, Jack (it doesn's seem right just calling you a number), and welcome to the world of vinyl and its many tinkerings.

I've got to say that the picture of your headshell has me very worried. You quite rightly point out that the cartridge is placed at an extremely strange angle in the headshell and it does look "way out".

I've no experience whatsoever of The Technics family of turntables and arms (so this is an ideal opportunity to ignore everything following if you wish) so I did a quick "Google" and came up with this little bit of information from a website headed "Vinyl Heaven":

"The Cartridge

The Technics headshell will accommodate all standard ½ inch mount cartridges, such as moving magnet types from Ortofon, Goldring, Shure, Grado and Audio Technica.

I opted for an Audio Technica AT120E, since I have had very good experiences with other Audio Technica cartridges.

I removed the headshell from the arm and used the cartridge gauge, supplied with the Technics SL-1200, to set the specified overhang when fitting the AT120E. After re-fitting the headshell onto the arm (with the AT120E lightly screwed into place) I also used my “Baerwald” cartridge alignment protractor to check to make some very fine adjustments that I hoped would ensure absolute tracking accuracy:

You can download a very useful Baerwald Protractor as a PDF from the Vinyl Engine. Make sure that you print it out very accurately, otherwise it will be worse than useless, and laminate it if possible. Find it here:
http://www.vinylengine.com/manuals_tonearm_protractors.shtml"

Now I may be reading this incorrectly (or it may have been written ambiguously) but the author implies that he set the specified overhang with the headshell removed from the arm and then used the "Baerwald" alignment protractor to "tune up". I have to say that it seems a little implausible (if not impossible) to set the overhang without the cartridge attached but it would perhaps be worth your while (just in case you may be damaging your vinyl) having a good look at his site and some of the links. The site I'm referring to is here:
http://www.arar93.dsl.pipex.com/mds975/Content/vinyl01.html

Best of Luck,

Baz

 

Phil, I accept what you say but Jack's cartridge doesn't look "slightly skewed" it looks about 20 degrees out of kilter to me.

 

doesnt look right to me. have yet to see a aligned cart that looks crooked on a headshell.

 

Quite right - looking at the photo again (I somehow didn't get the large version of the photo to work earlier ), it does look ... unusual.

 

Don't forget, you are aligning the stylus, not the cartridge body. I have had several cartridges that had to be rotated in one direction to allow for a skewed stylus. I would be concerned if the stylus was straight to the cartridge body and you ended up looking like this. This is a new cartridge and I assume the stylus is straight. Make sure the the stylus is seated properly on the cartridge body. If it is arrived with the stylus skewed to one side, I would look into getting a replacement stylus.

 

Okay, this is driving me insane. I cannot get the cart to line up with the null point on the overhang gauge when I look at it from the front without skewing the cart to the side. The stylus/needle and cart appear to be fine. But I simply cannot get a perfect reading without skewing the cart.

 

Better yet, can someone recommend me an alignment protractor that will work with an S shaped tonearm like the 1200?

 

What's the spindle to pivot and effective length for the 1200?

 

After reading some other threads on the web, it appears that you have to use the "Stevenson" alignment. Other people have ended up the same as you have, cart. not straight in the headshell usiong the baerwald alignment scheme. You can download a Stevenson alignment gauge at the Vinyl Engine apparantly.

 

Sometimes I think we were better off in the old days (the 70s), when setting up a TT meant buying a Garrard at a department store & plugging it in.

Anyway, A Technics-specific protractor has been recently posted at Vinylengine.com:
http://www.vinylengine.com/manuals_tonearm_protractors.shtml

You have to turn off your firewall to download.

BTW, this comes up about every 3 months on the various TT forums, but note that the Technics overhang gauge apparently does not result in a strict Baerwald alignment (Rega's setup, which is based on Stevenson's, differs from both). This represents a difference of philosophy, not necessarily right or wrong.

I've set up exactly one cartridge on a 1200, so I have no other advice. If the foregoing doesn't help, I would post this on the TT forum at vinylengine or the vinyl subforum at audioasylum.com -- lots of 1200 owners post there.

 

Hmm, I've been down this road...

Are you sure the cantilever is straight? If so, then check to make sure the actual purple stylus assembly sits straight on the body. Next, the headshell could be misaligned where the silver plug is pressed into the black part of the headshell. Finally, the alignment mark and/or the cartridge slot on the Technics overhang gauge itself might be off-center. FWIW, I've run into all four of those problems in the past. If there is any problem with the stylus assembly send it back for a replacement. A/T has great customer service.

On a related note, it's probably best to dump the Technics gauge and use a two-point Baerwald protractor. You'll get lower average audible distortion across the entire LP with that alignment. I use the protractor that came with the Hi-Fi News test record. Yes, the cartridge will be offset in the headshell with that alignment but it sounds much better than the Technics alignment.

 

Looking at the cantilever under some magnification goggles, I think it might be leaning just a bit to the left. I didn't notice this until you suggested I check it out. I guess there is nothing I personally can do about this?

 

First off, a cartridge doesn't have to sit straight/parallel in the headshell. If it did, you would simply set overhang and be done with it. So the fact that it is skewed a bit isn't necessarily a problem.

That said, I've used a couple of different protractors (including this one) with the same table/cartridge setup, and my cartridge is skewed *in* a bit, not out like yours. It is also farther forward on the headshell. So I'm thinking you're not doing something correctly.

I attached a photo of what mine looks like. Not quite the same angle, but you can see it is farther forward and skewed in ever so slightly.

 

Again, many thanks for all the advice and comments!

Just for kicks, here is a picture of my cart on the headshell in the gauge when the cart is pushed all the way back. I'm thinking that the cart should theoretically be centered, but boy is it not:



This is what I'm battling, this constant turning to the left, which means I have to skew my cart to the outside significantly, the opposite of lukpac's picture above. And actually, looking at the picture, it appears that the entire headshell is leaning to the right.

 

The top of the headshell should be level when in the gauge. If it isn't...hmm. I don't see any way to adjust the position of the rest of the headshell relative to the mounting point, so I'd say you need a new one. You might be able to send it back as defective, otherwise I think they go for $20 from KAB.

And, just so we're clear, the slot in the gauge is just wide enough to accept the alignment pin on the headshell, correct? There's no play, is there?

FYI, I've found the correct alignment (going by the various protractors) results in the stylus ending up just under 2mm past the end of the gauge and maybe 1.5mm to the left (when looking straight on).

 

Your most resent picture looks like an issue with the azimuth, rotation in degrees off vertical.

I'm not familiar with your arm or how to adjust it, but it is a common problem with carts. Somehow you need to find an adjustment that allows you to twist the arm or headshell. Adjusting overhang will not fix this problem.

Fun with TT set-up.
1.) Eyeball the azimuth setting from the view of your last picture,
2.) then adjust the overhang with the protractor.
3.) Follow that up with another tweak of the azimuth, this time placing the stylus on a mirror. You want the stylus to be vertical (looking from the front), ignore the angle of the cart in this step.
4.) then check the overhang again.

Repeat as necessary.

 

In his last photo, his headshell is actually off of his arm, and on his Technics alignment gauge. So unless the gauge was manufactured incorrectly, the problem is in the headshell and (to my knowledge) can't be adjusted.

I believe you can adjust the rotation of the headshell mount on the arm, but I probably wouldn't suggest changing it to match a headshell that isn't correct.

 

Can you twist the headshell in the gauge until the top is parallel with the gauge? This picture is how the overhang should be set.http://www.kabusa.com/GIF/overhang.jpg

Line the stylus up with the end of the gauge and over the notch, this should get you close. After the headshell is on the arm, set the horizontal tracking angle (HTA) for the null point, the cantilever not the body, anti-skating off (or zero) during the adjustment.

Good luck.

Or what lukpac said.