Cart aligned, but looks crooked.

Oh. I didn't catch that. Thought it was still on the arm.

Nevermind then.

 

Yes, kind of. The picture makes the lean look more exaggerated then it is. But I still have to turn the cart just a bit to the outside to get the needle to set perfectly over the null point when viewing the gauge from the front.

I'm listening to it right now and it really does sound fine. I guess it is impossible to audibly tell when damage is occurring to a record, but what are the chances of really ever getting all the alignment perfect?

I've been reading around the net all day, and have stumbled across a few other individuals who also ended up with their carts skewing with the headshell. So honestly I don't know what to do.

I keep telling myself there has got to be an easier way then this. I guess the easier way is shelling out $200-300 for a kab integrated ortofon.

 

There's no really easy way and it will never be perfect. With a pivoted tonearm, even perfect alignment will result in about a 1.5 degree tracking error on part of the record. The overhang is the most critical adjustment or at least will result in the biggest tracking error. The null point on the gauge is not that accurate, especially if the headshell is not perfectly level. I would probably just set the overhang with the gauge and print out an alignment protractor that sits on the platter to adjust the null points.

 

Sounds like the best idea. I guess that means I'm going to have to buy a printer! Geez this hobby gets pricey...

Thanks to all again for your help!

 

I've recently bought a Dual CS505-4 TT (still in it's box, used five times - £40). It didn't have a cart in it, so I installed a spare Shure M75ED (with new stylus). I used two different alignment protractors and, sure enough, even though the cantilever is in perfect alignment with the cart body itself, after adjusting to the two null points, the cartridge body is skewed slightly outwards. Odd as it looks, I've never heard my vinyl sound as good. Sibilance has all but disappeared (apart from a few pressings I know to be poor) and the bass is fabulous; very little inner groove distortion, too.

 

Amen!!!!!!

You are 100% correct. Some carts do not have the stylus shaft installed exactly ll to the body.

If you aligned it correctly and the cart look crooked so be it.

 

Goal is to align the stylus, ignoring the shape of the cartridge body.

 

I have a similar issue but in the opposite direction: the cartidge body tilts in on the spindle side of the cartridge. (This is also an AT440mla cartridge with a Sony PS-LX300H turntable.)

I used a protractor with 2 points to align it and it seems as if the cartridge body is squared with the vertical lines (across the narrow side of the protractor) at the two points.

I don't understand how this could be used to set the overhang, just the right or leftness of the cartridge. Could someone please explain this to me?

One more thing: I was looking at the picture in post #21 and noticed the screws (and therefore cartridge) are very close to the front of the two long slots. In my case - different turntable but similar looking arm - the right screw is in the middle of the slot and the left screw is (very roughly) about 75% back in the slot, thus the tilt.

 

Basically, in order to get the cart square with the protractor at *both* null points, you have to slide the cart backwards and forwards to find the spot where this is possible.

Once you've done that, that's your overhang set.

 

That's what I'm not grasping...moving the cart backwards and forwards, as opposed to leftward and rightward, doesn't make the cartridge more or less square with the lines on the side. Does it?

In any case, the cart seems square at both points (though I have to move the protractor to get it under the stylus at each point). Does that mean I have the correct overhang?

 

If you were only concerened with one null point, then you could say that. But, you have to get the cart to align at BOTH null points. If the cartridge is too far back, you can get the cartridge to look straight at the inner null point, only for it to be "anti clockwise" of where it should be at the outer null point. If the cart is too far forward, you could get it to look straight at the inner null point, only for it to be "clockwise" of where it should be at the outer null point. By judging which way the cartridge has gone, you are determining if you should push it forward or back in order to hit the overhang.

If that is the case, then you got lucky, and managed to hit the correct overhang on your first go.

I will say this: if you have printed the protractor out from a website somewhere, and your cart still looks significantly crooked in the headshell, I would double check the accuracy of the protractor with a ruler to make sure the null points are where they are supposed to be. I got burned by a printout once; the laser printer was a good quality one, but the scale was off, so there was no chance of it working. I soon realised this, and made my own protractor out of millimeter grid paper...

 

I ordered one from this place (presumably the same one, though it was cheaper back then):

http://www.elexatelier.com/essentials.htm

 

How far off is your cartridge? If it is only slightly crooked inwards (see the picture of Luke's setup in post #21), then the protractor has pretty much done the job. If it is majorly skewed but you are happy with the protractor, then something else could be off in the headshell end of things, perhaps?

 

It's more crooked inwards than in that picture, and further back in the headshell.

I'll see if I can post some pictures this weekend. I don't know if I'm happy or unhappy with the protractor. I just meant that I didn't print it out myself.

 

T4P forever, people. Set yourself free.

 

One very good tip I saw on one of the websites offering a pdf of a protractor...

''When printing out a protractor, if you use ordinary paper it will shrink (because of the heat) and won't give an accurate measurement.''

It recommended using A4 'Transparent OHP Film' which I bought in a local stationery and it is brilliant. 100% accurate.

On the pdf of the protractor it gave a measurement of 118mm below the protractor, so that when you print it out you can measure to check that your printout is exactly 118mm.

When you are using the transparent protractor you can put a piece of white paper under it, when you are aligning the cartridge, or you can cut some hard cardboard and stick the protractor to it.


JG

 

Where's the fun in that?

 

Good suggestions. For now, I printed it on a light card stock and measured to make sure it was accurate. What I'm wondering is if I should have a record on the table and lay it over that or if it goes right on the mat? I tried it both ways and got slightly different results.

 

or in my case, a KAB integrated.

 

How's that working out for you?

 

I tried taking some photos but they came out a little too bright and I don't know how to add them to a reply anyway; it prompts you for a URL. I guess it can't take it from a camera.

I checked the alignment again, the best I could, and it seems aligned correctly. If I draw (or hold) a straight edge along the front of the cartridge, it heads toward the spindle whereas if I do that along the edge of the headshell, it seem to veer off to the front side of the spindle, if that makes any sense.

The headshell screws and locks into the arm so I don't see how there any possible adjustments that could made to the headshell.

 

Sorry to be thick, but what does 'overhang' mean?

 

The distance that the radius of the arc of the stylus is past the arm pivot to platter spindle distance. This adjustment is what determines the position of the two null points (the points where the stylus is at the same angle relative to the groove wall) on the playing surface. There are some good set-up guides on the net that explain how to set the alignment.

 

Sounds like the mid-ordinate. I have been thinking of doing the math, geometry of my set-up and tinkering with it, settings that is...