Mono Cartridge: Is It Worth It?

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I read through all the pages of the archived mono playback thread, and I'm still trying to get some clarification.

I have lots of mono records, and prefer mono on vinyl. As has been discussed, they always sound better played back in mono (my amp has a mono switch).

I would like some clarification on if a mono cartridge is really worthwhile, and if it does anything substantially beyond using the mono switch.

I do not have a high end system and can't afford one, but I do keep my records in great shape, clean them on a Nitty Gritty, and keep my styluses clean. The best mono cart I would get would be one of the Grado models between $80 and $130.

Anyone care to weigh in?

 

See (if you haven't already):
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=100925
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=59643
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=112939
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=19627

 

Welcome to the Forum!

I thought about it a long time, but decided not to get a mono cart. Steve's Y cable suggestion suits me nicely. I know many members here who have dedicated mono TTs or easily swapable carts and love their mon, so I'm sure they'll chime in.

 

Pasted from another thread:

I use the Denon DL-102 and it does amazing things for "compromised" old mono records. In terms of turning chicken turds into chicken salad, it's one of the best audio investments I have ever made. It's a high-output moving coil (no step-up needed), conical stylus, 0.7 mils. It's a big cart and it tracks on the heavy side. You want a higher-mass arm for this thing. Mates well with an SME 3009.

 

Most mono cartridges aren't true mono cartridges, but stereo cartridges with strapped outputs. Therefore they don't do anything that hitting the "mono" button doesn't do. There are a few true mono cartridges out there, but they are hideously expensive.

The difference between a mono and stereo cart is that the mono will have a slightly larger stylus, 1.0 mil vs. the 0.7 mil that is standard with stereo carts. The larger stylus might help to reduce groove noise a little, but riding closer to the top of the groove, it also increases the ticks and pops a little bit. I've also had hum issues with Grado cartridges, so I'm not a big Grado fan.

Me - I'd just keep hitting that "mono" button.

 

The Denon DL-102 ($159 at audiocubes.com)is a true mono cart with a 0.7 mil stylus.

A agree with you about the 1.0 mil stylus. I have a couple and they don't seem to help at all.

 

THe DL-102 offers limited freq. response.
"Frequency response: 50Hz - 10kHz "

 

The published numbers are wrong. See my post here.

 

That's a really sweet looking cartridge, and reasonably priced, too. Thanks for the tip - I didn't know about those. 3 mV from a moving coil? There must be magnets in that thing that will pick up a Yugo. My only reservation about that cart would be the non-user-replaceable stylus.

 

Yeah, well the cost of a whole new cart would be less than the cost of a genuine V15 Shure stylus. I've wondered myself how hard it would be to get the DL-102 retipped with an elliptical or better. But regardless, the stock DL-102 does what it's supposed to do, at least as far as I'm concerned -- it pulls good music out of records that look like they shouldn't produce good music.

The signature sound of the DL-102 is typical of a cart for the Japanese market -- laid back and not flashy. And really, if I have a pristine mono, I'm more likely to play it with my Stanton and use the mono switch because that cart seems to make the most of my rig. What the DL-102 does that I love is that it can make many VG- records very listenable. A pretty impressive accomplishment for the money if you're a thrift store hunter like I am.

 

As for cartridges for playing mono, I found the wisest investment was (is) the Ortofon Super OM cartridge. The best part of that cartridge is I could use the ultimate Stylus 40 for most of my great LP records. Additionally, Ortofon makes a host of less expensive conical, elliptical, and even the larger 1.0 mil stylus (I received a recommendation that the Stylus ProS works best for mono records). I can always use the cheaper Stylus 10 for those "trashed" records (or when I replace my Stylus 40, save the old one for such use). Before I knew any better, I had some 45s that sounded so crappy with a MicroLine stylus (later found out why), that I created a dedicated setup with a plain old Elliptical stylus (NOTE: From what I've read here and elsewhere, apparently in some cases, the MicroLine can damage the more delicate grooves on a styrene plastic 45 rpm record). Additionally, if one stylus shape sounds horrible on a 45, I can simply try others until it sounds good (and yes, I've had that happen, too, depending on the "wear pattern" on that record's groove). Just a thought. .......And I'm not a big GRADO fan either (had hum and mistracking issues, but to be fair, the GRADO can work nicely in some setups ...just not mine).

 

A few more questions...

Greetings,

I've read the whole thread, and a similar one in another forum. I've recently bought a bunch of mono 7" 45s from the late 50s and early 60s on eBay, the quality of which naturally varies from disc to disc. I'm getting distortion in places -- esp where there are female lead singers or sax solos -- mid-highs.

Right now I'm using a garden-variety Kenwood turntable with a new stock needle for its stock stereo cartridge -- a far cry from audiophile. I want to upgrade. Here's the quandry:

The distortion I'm hearing could be attributed to any and all of the following: a) stereo needle adding noise by tracking the vertical movement which contains no real audio information, b) crappy pressings, c) crappy vinyl, d) really old vinyl, e) vinyl that was played with crappy needles long before it ended up on eBay.

Now for my QUESTIONS:

1. Given so many possible culprits, am I wasting money to invest in something like the Denon DL-102?

2. I'm looking at the Audio-Technica AT-PL120 as a nice happy-medium-priced turntable. Any thoughts on it? (This whole endeavor is for a specific, one-time project for my family; I'm not looking to go full-tilt, mega-bucks audiophile, or into vinyl restoration as a hobby.)

3. If the AT-PL120 is okay, is its tone arm heavy duty enough for the DL-102?

4. Or... might there be a better turntable/mono-cartridge combination you could suggest that would meet my needs at a relatively modest price?

Thanks for any thoughts you can share,
DM

 

Having tried various setups for my collection of mono 10" LPs, I finally settled on an Ortofon Concord stereo cartridge with 1.0 mil conical stylus.

My Dynaco preamp has a selector switch which can be set to pick up channel "A", channel "B", or channel "A+B". This feature, combined with the stereo cartridge, allows me to play a record on all three settings to determine which gives the best results. Occasionally, I will find that a mono record will play better, with much less surface noise, when picking up only from the "A" or "B" channel than it does when picking up from both channels.

HG

 

Sakuma listened exclusively in mono. He paired the DL102 with a Gray arm.

This is a neat article about the 102:

http://www.dagogo.com/OneCartridgeForAll-DenonDL102.html

 

Hello and welcome

In your case I believe the answer is no.

Not that a true mono cart can't be a benefit, but that your attention would be better spent on other things. Is your current playback setup well "dialed in"? Being fussy with getting the tracking etc spot-on can make a lot more difference. How good is the 'table, arm, cartridge? Look for good pressings, don't use a worn stylus... all that sort of thing. It sounds like you're well enough served by the mono switch. Either a bridged cart, y-cables or a mono switch will do the same job at summing the signal from a stereo cart to mono and rejecting the added sonic junk accompanying typical stereo playback.

True mono vintage vinyl has U-shaped grooves. On those records and only those records, a U shaped (conical) stylus can be preferable. Mono vinyl can (and often has been since stereo) also have V-shaped grooves, being cut with a stereo lathe. A mono cart with a V-shaped stylus won't help any on the U-groove discs, and you don't want to use the U stylus on V groove discs.

As you may know, a mono record may not be mono. It may be cut on a stereo lathe and the signal may not be identical for any number of reasons including playback of a mono tape on a stereo tape unit (which is done quite often - they often use whatever playback unit is convenient, almost certainly being a more modern solid state stereo unit). Summing such signals to mono may result in phase and other problems (often heard as a loss of high frequencies and/or a swishy effect mostly in the highs). Playing such a record with mono playback, like with a mono cart, wouldn't be a good thing then.

If one needs more complications, check into pre-vinyl records

 

There may be several reasons for 'distortion' on mono records; but generally, it's wear or damage (I have several new mono discs, and am surprised that I can't hear the difference between mono and stereo playback on these; that's certainly not true of any of my lesser condition records..)

So, to alleviate the reproduction of these faults:

1) a quality preamp with good overload characteristics (clipped distortion sounds a lot worse than clean distortion, basically, and some preamps don't cope well with disc noise.

2) mono switch or dual y-cable

3) varyiing stylus sizes and shapes

4) true mono cartridge

A true mono cartridge that *only* responds to lateral modulations will give an audible reduction in noise over a 'mono'd' stereo one, because even with a mono amp the cartridge balance (crosstalk and matching) will feed noise that isn't cancelled out. Preamp quality can also affect the action of any mono switch (all my integrated amps showed a loss of 'air' when switched to mono on a stereo disc. I thought this was normal. My old Naim preamp sounds pretty much the same mono or stereo, unless I'm really concentrating on the stereo image and there's a lot of wide stereo imaging)

A true mono cartridge is not cheap; the Denon (really needs a heavy, rigid arm - friends use the VPI/JMW (with added weight), SME etc..) is one of the cheaper and better performers though it is still a moving coil and benefits from good matching to the preamp..

At the lower level, I have very good results from the Shure M44 series, M44C and M44-7 when used in mono on worn 45s and Lps. This sort of cartridge with a conical stylus works well at 2.5/3g in a medium mass arm like the Technics 1200 and the A-T. It's not a refined sound, but it sure isn't boring.

 

Hello and welcome

We can remove d), since vinyl doesn't deteriorate from age alone. In its place we can add: groove damage from mistracking and/or damaging tonearms etc from bad 'tables. Worn needles (stylus) is as you note a big problem but just one of the kinds of bad playback. Another factor is dirt and grunge; do you clean the records well? The stereo playback artifacts are generally more subtle than any of the other causes like groove damage.

Can't guess about the records you have unfortunately. Your descriptions seem to suggest groove damage or mistracking (which will cause it) but that's just speculation. Groove damage can have a sort of "crackly" character to it as well, if that helps.

As to your vinyl-spinning future, there are other things to consider. I don't know anything about your Kenwood table, so I can't say how gentle it is or isn't on the records; I'd honestly be more concerned about that than the sound quality. A rough setup will wear records on the first play while a gentle setup can play a record who knows how many times before causing any wear whatsoever, it's a tricky game of physics going on.

As to the Denon cart, it could be a bit of overkill, yeah. Perhaps a Shure M97xE? It can be found under $100 and sounds quite nice. It's $80 here:
http://www.kabusa.com/ for an example.

Can't comment on the Audio-Technica turntables. Audio-Technica does have some of the best cartridges out there today; the 440MLa is particularly good for clean tracking and may not be too high out of your range. As to 'tables, if your budget is tight, you can't beat getting a good used table. Like a good Pioneer from the mid '70's to mid '80's. Usually they just need a new belt or a drop of oil if that to last another generation. With a good cart on it and good "dialing-in" such a setup can sound very nice.

For your aims I wouldn't worry about getting a mono cart. Use a pair of y-cables between the 'table and your preamp / tuner or get a preamp / tuner with a mono switch when playing (true) mono vinyl.

Luck

 

What a cool setup you have Boy that must sound wonderful.

I like reading some of your posts, you're very knowledgeable. I've noticed this same thing. Ah the variables of electronics.

 

Thanks for the comments, everyone. I have decided to start with the new turntable, and see how much of an improvement I get, just from having a better cartridge. (The one that ships with it has gotten good reviews). If necessary, I'll revisit the mono cartridge question.

Peace-out,
DM