Finding The Best Sounding Genesis (Part II), Album By Album...

The era of shag carpet on control room walls caused many problems in the 70s. Let's list a few albums that were mixed in bad rooms:

Yes- Going for the One (carpet on the walls made everything sound dry so they added way too much reverb).

The Eagles- Hotel California (speakers hung in mid air making them mix in too much low end).

Good thing about W&W is you can actually EQ it to sound good like the vinyl.

 

I had the UK pressing from day of release, and I don't remember it being that great either. 27+ minute LP sides don't help. While the German vinyl might be the best, there is still a limit to what you can do when cramming that much music on.

 

Well, I don't know, but I'm just saying that when you hear the vinyl (even just a US Atco pressing) you can hear the sound they were going for.

I'd be inclined to think the montiors they were using were just fine during the mixing, and it's just the poor sonics of this album in the digital realm that have caused it a reputation for being a worse production than it ever was. I'd even say that "Blood On The Rooftops" has positively glorious production, but I suppose it could be argued that track was a standout.

 

If the Sanyo Japan has only 8 tracks, then what the heck happened here? http://cgi.ebay.com/Genesis-Wind-Wu...318961678QQihZ012QQcategoryZ307QQcmdZViewItem

 

Agreed and no argument. That song is one of the highlights of Wind & Wuthering as far as I am concerned. It's a shame this song was never played live in 1977.

 

They're talking about the number of tracks on the CD itself (due to indexing).

 

So the inserts say 8 tracks and the disc still has 7? I remember seeing a Sanyo Atco that have 7 tracks listed both for the disc and inserts

 

What are the main differences, regarding sound presentation, between the Sanyo and the Nimbus first mastering?

Jeff, why do you prefer the Sanyo?

 

Wind & Wuthering

What are the main differences, regarding sound presentation, between the Sanyo and the Nimbus first mastering?

Jeff, why do you prefer the Sanyo?

What about this one:

Is it unique? Is it good?

 

I have done some listening to my versions both on CD and vinyl some days ago.

I have the following:
CD Sanyo Japan
CD UK Nimbus
Vinyl US GP
Vinyl Germany
Vinyl UK original embossed sleeve.

IMO all but the UK Nimbus CD and the UK vinyl sound like they are tweaked in the low end to some extent. Even though they sound a little thinner they both seem to have more air and to be more alive than the others. They also sound very much alike.

If you want a copy on CD that sound like the original UK vinyl the UK Nimbus is the one. Yes it is bright and thin sounding, but this is how it was presented on the UK vinyl back then.

 

In college I had many friends with Genesis on vinyl, including some mint condition Japan and UK pressings. Wish I had recorded them. But still, in general even the vinyl didn't impress me. Too many minutes on a side, perhaps (Zappa definitely would have released albums that long as doubles).

It got me thinking, was reel-to-reel the ideal format for them? Anybody ever hear some of those tapes? I was wondering if they stood out.

 

Just a quick correction:

The V/C artwork/disc silk-screen has 9 tracks.

The Atco artwork/disc silk-screen has 8 tracks.

Sanyo made discs for both V/C and Atco. When making a disc for V/C they used the 9 track artwork and 9 track plain black-on-silver silk-screening for the disc, however, as Dr. M. has reported (http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=3496394&postcount=10), the Sanyo-made V/C disc still only has 8 tracks.

 

So the Nimbus sounds different than the Sonopress? How so? I thought everything but the Sanyo sounded alike?

 

We certainly seem to be hearing things the same way.

 

Black Elk, you recommend the UK Nimbus?

I've been comparing the UK Nimbus with the Germany Sonopress today... the sonopress has pre-emphasis, which my player can decode alright and it sounds a little bit softer than the UK Nimbus.

However, the Nimbus does sound a little fuller and punchier making for a more realistic musical experience.

I think I'll go for the Nimbus then. But... I would really like to get a better description of what is different in the Sanyo mastering.

Not to mention the Black Triangle that nobody comments on...

 

It's the only version I have heard on CD where the midrange is tolerable and the bass is powerful. The drums sound on a similar level to Trick in terms of how powerful they are.

All other versions I've heard have a midrange tweaking that drives me nuts.

The Sanyo Japan, while inferior to the German Charisma vinyl I have (and the US Atco, for that matter), is mainly different in that it has a little too much top end.

 

My favorite song on the album.

 

Apologies for the delay, Jeff... here are three 20-second samples of Eleventh Earl Of Mar, from my Canadian 8-track Atco.

Let me know what you think.

 

I myself just compared this to my V/C Nimbus, and they are *very close*. Maybe this Canadian issue has the Sanyo Japan mastering? It doesn't sound as thin and grating as I remember the U.S. Atco sounding.

 

Cool... anyone else? Jeff? Black Elk?

 

As far as the LP's go, I dug out 2 very early Minty Charisma/Phonogram UK pressings of W&W, and they both have the 'Small Hatter' labels, and A2/B2 matrices. Not sure if an A1/B1 matrix of this title exists, but to be honest, that Japan Charisma LP, even with it's tweaked low end, is a bit nicer to me.

I think this album needs all the help it can get in the bottom end dept. There may be an A1 UK or a German LP that sounds better, but have never seen or heard one to compare.

 

This is definitely not the Sanyo mastering. Might be the Sonopress as it doesn't sound quite as bad as I remember the US Atco sounding, but either way you need this one if you want anything that even remotely approaches the vinyl (at least the vinyl cuts I've heard):

V/C (Sanyo)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=batch_download&batch_id=TTZuTGs2a0RTSUJMWEE9PQ

 

I just realized that the CD I was comparing these clips to was the V/C Sonopress...The clips sound like the Sonopress, but it sounds like the phase is off, maybe due to the De-Emphasis I had to apply to my copy.

I have the V/C Nimbus, I remember it being quite a bit better than this Sonopress mastering. Time to dig it out.

 

Apologies for not having responded sooner, but I had some concerts to attend to, and wanted to be sure my ears had recovered before listening again.

Do I recommend the UK Nimbus? No! I don't think there is a clear-cut winner that a majority could agree on. Is it my preferred version? Yes! However, I have not heard the Black Triangle.

I listened again using Blood On The Rooftops (since it was mentioned) and Afterglow. I hear the same thing that I reported before. The Sanyo sounds like it has been low-pass filtered. While this may improve apparent clarity, it tends to close things in, and the air/sparkle is missing compared to the V/C. Dr. M. and I seem to be hearing something similar, but following his comments I paid particular attention to the bass frequencies. With the discs playing simultaneously in identical CD players and with the levels matched (note: they differ from song to song, even within a song at times!), I would switch on-the-fly and try to close my mind to the changes in the high frequencies/air/space/sparkle. I'm not convinced that the bass has been boosted on the Sanyo, I think it seems a little more apparent because the highest frequencies have been filtered.

Like Dr. M., I prefer the more open, rounded sound of the Nimbus despite its apparent thinness, but completely understand Jeff (with whom I agree on the vast majority of pressings, not just for Genesis), for example, preferring the Sanyo. That is why I think folks will have to listen for themselves, as there is no out-and-out winner.

 

Thanks, it helps a lot! I will try them all and compare to find out which one I prefer