Pre-remaster Deja Vu CDs

The cymbals sound terrible on this one! So weird.

On a happier note though, I tracked down a very decent copy of the SRC matrix today. Actually, I need to go back to the store and get it since I had forgotten what matrix was required and had to come back home and check. Oh well, I'll get it tomorrow.

(In case anyone cares, I also found the James Taylor Sweet Baby James target mastering and the Dennis Drake Cream - Goodbye today. Good day, huh? )

 

I've had a West Germany pressed CD of 'Deja Vu' for the past couple of years, which has '01' in the hub area.

I just recently found another West Germany disc which I was going to sell in the classifieds, until I checked the hub area, and it has '03'.

I decided to go back and read through this thread, and did a little bit of comparing on my own.

Here's what I came up with...

Total Time:

01 = 36:29

03 = 36:21


Peak levels for '01':

Track 1
Filename E:\Track01.wav

Peak level 66.9 %
Test CRC 23EE804B
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename E:\Track02.wav

Peak level 46.3 %
Test CRC C33EFAFB
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename E:\Track03.wav

Peak level 76.0 %
Test CRC 7A2469E9
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename E:\Track04.wav

Peak level 54.3 %
Test CRC 6EFC6ECB
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename E:\Track05.wav

Peak level 72.7 %
Test CRC 61AAD818
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename E:\Track06.wav

Peak level 62.2 %
Test CRC DF2A7A67
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename E:\Track07.wav

Peak level 64.7 %
Test CRC 689F0989
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename E:\Track08.wav

Peak level 35.6 %
Test CRC 400C4081
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename E:\Track09.wav

Peak level 77.5 %
Test CRC 281C2650
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename E:\Track10.wav

Peak level 67.0 %
Test CRC 054AC777
Copy OK


Peak levels for '03':

Track 1
Filename E:\Track01.wav

Peak level 84.2 %
Test CRC 99DED245
Copy OK

Track 2
Filename E:\Track02.wav

Peak level 80.6 %
Test CRC 734A73BD
Copy OK

Track 3
Filename E:\Track03.wav

Peak level 76.0 %
Test CRC 54EB60FD
Copy OK

Track 4
Filename E:\Track04.wav

Peak level 78.5 %
Test CRC 274B25B8
Copy OK

Track 5
Filename E:\Track05.wav

Peak level 79.7 %
Test CRC 549F9E0E
Copy OK

Track 6
Filename E:\Track06.wav

Peak level 87.9 %
Test CRC CFAF66E3
Copy OK

Track 7
Filename E:\Track07.wav

Peak level 81.5 %
Test CRC D1917A1D
Copy OK

Track 8
Filename E:\Track08.wav

Peak level 61.8 %
Test CRC 634C4831
Copy OK

Track 9
Filename E:\Track09.wav

Peak level 77.5 %
Test CRC 203768B4
Copy OK

Track 10
Filename E:\Track10.wav

Peak level 84.3 %
Test CRC 034318CB
Copy OK


I also compared waveforms of each, using the song 'Carry On'.

The top waveform is the '01' CD, the bottom waveform is the '03' CD.

PS. Sorry about all the scrolling.

 

Very interesting.

My US pressing has the matrix code "3 19118-2 SRC=08 M852", and I think the 3 in that matrix might refer to the 03 in yours.

My disc seems to be the same mastering as your 03 version, according to peak levels and playing time.

Now the most important question: Which version sounds better to you? Do you notice that there are some fixed tape issues on the 03?

 

Well, do either of them have SRC in the matrix?

 

Nope.

 

Can anybody explain what's exactly wrong with HDCD remaster?

 

I'd like to know this too. Does anyone know?

-s1m0n-

 

If this helps at all, the 20P2-2355 has the same EAC values as Scott J's WG 03. Also, I don't hear any dropouts on the CD. EAC's time shows 36:23.

 

I recently purchased a JPN. 20P2 in MINT condition with obi. Fab. sounding disc, better I think than my WG, or my US made for USA. I do not do an a-b-c though.

I still like the HDCD too. Each has their own attributes.

 

It is a bit bright. BUT, it has so many other things going for it thatI think it is indispensible if this record means to you what it means to me. In this, I am biased, I admit. Also, my system tends to ameliorate brightness, so that quality may be more or less a problem depending one one's system. As always, this is IMHO and YMMV.

 

I also hear the clicks at 2:30-2:32 on Almost Cut My Hair.

 

I don't think it's "a bit" bright. More like *really* bright.

 

Your US copy should have the fixes not present on the German CD.

Could you provide some clips?

 

I am sure that to you it is.

 

I don't know how and have no inclination in that regard. However, since I got it on ebay for $25.00 6 months ago using buy it now, it should not be hard to find.

 

Thanks, but I don't feel like spending $25 if there's no reason to...

 

These are also the peak levels for the German CD with the matrix "2 50001 SRC 01" and catalogue numbers "SD 19188-2, Europe: 250 001" which has the fixes.

 

Let me see if I have this straight:

OK. So neither of Scott J's German CD's has SRC in the matrix, and both have the tape issues. One ends in 01 and the other in 03 and they have different peak levels (indicating different masterings). Is this a situation where the 03 is the same mastering as the 01, only level shifted?

Then according to Andreas, the German CD with SRC 01 in the matrix shares the same peak levels as Scott J's 03 (non-SRC) disc, and the tape issues are corrected in Andreas's SRC 01 disc, correct? (as I reach for my glass of Scotch right about now ) Based on this info, it would seem to me that the one to have is Andreas's German SRC 01 disc since it should have the best sound combined with the fixed tape issues.

One thing I am curious about is how the West German (non-SRC) 01 disc compares to the West German 03 disc. Scott J, have you compared these two? It would be great to hear which one you think sounds better.

And lastly, I hope I am not muddling this beyond belief or even worse, misconstruing the information in these posts. If so, someone please correct me. I am a huge fan of the music on this record and it would be great to get to the bottom of all this. Thanks!

FWIW I have the West German 03 disc (with the tape problems, but I love the sound of it), and I have a US non-remaster with the corrected tape problems. I prefer the sound of the West German 03, even with the tape issues.

 

I find the original CD to have far too wide stereo imagery compared to the LPs I have heard.

See my findings in these posts:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=4490862&postcount=14

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=4490863&postcount=15

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=4490865&postcount=16

 

That seems likely, but I don't believe anyone with the 01 has posted clips for verification.

To my knowledge, all of the SRC versions are identical. I.e., with the fixes. That would be my preference, although some folks swear the pressing quality isn't as good. I don't hear it.

If somebody posts some clips...

Ah, yes, what I mentioned above.

One's personal preference aside, the original CDs are certainly most faithful to the tape.

 

I don’t know about that. I only know that the CD sounds very different to the US LP (SD 7200) I’m comparing too because of a much wider stereo perspective. The sound from the LP is more steady with a much fuller low end and also a much deeper holography.

Here is a sample if anyone wants to listen for themselves.

http://cid-00e15b5b8548053b.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Musikksampler SH Forum/CSNY/Narrow-cr.wav

 

My point is that the wide stereo separation is on the tape, and if an LP doesn't have that separation it was either a poor cutting or narrowed down during cutting.

If I remember correctly the remastered CD is narrowed during the intro and then widens up.

 

So, these two versions should sound exactly the same then? Man, If I had EAC I'd be dangerous, I could swear there are differences

One thing that should NOT have been fixed (and I am surprised nobody has mentioned this yet), is the very beginning of Carry On, when the acoustic guitar first enters. On my West German copy it is much smoother. On the US "fixed" copy there is a fraction of a second that sounds "chopped". Probably overly nit-picky, but its pretty noticeable when you compare the two versions back to back.

As far as the stereo image goes I never really gave that much thought, but it is indeed wide on the CD's. I guess my ears have grown accustomed to hearing these songs like this over the years. I have never heard the LP, but now I am interested.

 

Thanks to everyone for bumping this up. A few months ago I found one with the same matrix numbers as the one in Luke's first post, 7567 19118-2 2895 821 03, with the same dropouts. Then only difference is mine says Manufactured in Switzerland and has only a black ring around it.
Not knowing if Barry mastered it or not, I originally hesitated to buy it. Then thought to myself it's only $7. But by the looks of it he did. The one thing I can't still figure out is how a Swiss made disc ended up in a used store in Pitt sburgh? WG or Jpn I can understand.

 

I'm not noticing a difference, but this is what a WAV Compare is reporting:

Carry On, DE CD:
- different samples, 0:00:00.125 - 0:00:00.208
- different samples, 0:02:39.370 - 0:02:41.527
- 16 missing samples, 0:02:41.450

Carry On, US CD:
- different samples, 0:00:00.125 - 0:00:00.208
- 1532 missing samples, 0:00:00.132
- different samples, 0:02:39.335 - 0:02:41.492

I've got both loaded in ProTools now. The DE CD is indeed 1532 samples longer at the start. The different samples in the intro are a little misleading. I extracted starting at *exactly* the start of audio, and the difference is 0:00:00.004 long. There's a quick "blip" when doing an inversion test. That equates to approximately 190 samples. It appears that those ~190 samples "fade up" on the US CD, causing the difference.

And of course the bit around 2:39 is the edit to fix the dropout.