Your Vinyl Transfer Workflow (sharing best needledrop practices)*

Not a problem. How much was removed in your estimate?

 

Just about all of it.

 

Has it been cleaned thoroughly?

 

Thanks for the info. I looked at that and saw there was still a lot of orange yet the noise was gone. Most of the noise is in the right channel which is why you see such a reduction there. Having better ears is always a help. Hopefully you'll find a better solution and publish your results.

 

Those repetitive scrunching noises are the worst. The only way to fix them is with surgical edits, working one scrunch at a time until the track gets loud enough to mask them. Normal declicking doesn't work very well as you have to turn it up so high that you start losing a lot of signal.

 

That's a good idea. I've never really tried that especially in work with so much vocals and instrumentation. Does the declick area need any other additions? The author has the whole B side to do and that could be a lot.

 

That is the way I get at what I call “sputtery scraping sounds”. I use Spectral Repair in either replace or attenuate mode to see what works best. Playing with surrounding region width and balance. I use the selection tool that allows free form shape selection and stay in the higher frequencies to tame that area where the noise is most notable and the removal will do the least damage to the music.

 

That is exactly how I do it down to the last detail.

 

Same here. It's a really good catch-all tool for quicker anomalies that the click repair algorithm can't fix efficiently.

 

Thank you, I think I'll try it.

 

Another 'exactly how I do it'. Most times the spectral repair tool in izotope can eliminate glitches like this with (IMO) an amazing degree of transparency, but for some reason in this case, the noise is so embedded in the music that I can't attack it properly (or at least in a way that is satisfying to me).

I also noted that the noises in my sample have a 'processed' sound to them. Maybe I will re-rip side B and attack the raw scraping noises... perhaps that way spectral repair may have an easier time differentiating between music and noise.

Someone else asked if I tried cleaning it. Yes, I cleaned it ultrasonically... perhaps I will do another pre-wash and rinse with Tergikleen then Distilled Water and then put it back in my Humminguru (I use AI Enzymatic Concentrate for Ultrasonic Machines). I've gone down rabbit holes in the past with bad pressings doing multiple cleaning cycles, but if it is 'baked' into the pressing, no amount of cleaning is going to help.

Might try the water trick to see if it helps.

In most cases when you get a bad pressing, the best solution is to get a better one. Like I mentioned (I think?) this album was limited to 600 pressings on Record Store Day and I'm not sure if a widespread release in on the horizon. I could try to find another copy, but I'm sure I'd be paying flipper prices for one and IMO it would most likely have the same flaw. I searched through the forums here to see if anyone had any comments on it and couldn't find anything, so I went to discogs and noticed that a few others complained of the same issue on the same side.

I appreciate the feedback and will keep everyone posted. Unfortunately, this issue is one that is pretty common with new pressings (I had a similar issue with the new black vinyl pressing of Alice in Chains' Jar of Flies) so that's why I wanted to bring the subject up here. Casual listeners probably don't even notice it in most cases, but for those of us that take this needle dropping hobby seriously, it is maddening.

 

I completely agree. Many new pressings have these scrunch sounds. Some albums I've tried five copies of the same album and they all have it. I can (reluctantly) live with some pops and click as I have a SugarCube in my chain but it does nothing for the scrunches. It seems to be that they're skimping on the quality of the vinyl. Which is crazy because everything is 180g... They should make lighter records and put the savings towards better quality vinyl.

 

You made the most important point about this type of noise when it is embedded within the music but still audible. Just about impossible to remove without serious damage to the music. Yes, one could use Denoise and get some noise-only profiles during the transition grooves. But Denoise was designed to remove steady state noise like hiss, LF tonal content, or buzz. Maybe adaptive mode might be able to chase the modulations better, but I know these sounds and there is just too much change in frequency, amplitude, and rise/fall times for Denoise to work well. The only times I have had success getting rid of them transparently were in the music fade-in and fade-out regions where the musical spectral and level content is well below the higher frequency noise transients. Even then it usually takes multiple trials testing different settings to get a satisfactory repair. You may have to just live with the flaws and let your brain focus on the music you enjoy so much. Let your brain and emotional response separate the signal from the noise.

 

I took me a long time to find peace of mind with my needle drops... it was like I always envisioned the needle drop police breaking into my home and evaluating and criticizing what and how I do it.
I like the sound I'm currently getting and then every time I think I got it down, I'll read a method or tip here and I go all the way back to square one... and that's OK... this is my thing.

When I was a kid, I'd save up to get a cheap album, record it to a cheap Kmart red 90-minute cassette on my cheap Sears component stereo and listen to the tapes in a cheap no name boom box while we all sat around drinking cheap ****ty beer.
These days, I save up to get an expensive album, play it with an expensive turntable with an expensive cartridge after it's cleaned with an expensive ultrasonic machine... recorded and processed through expensive software on an expensive computer to transfer it to an expensive iPhone to listen to it through an expensive Bluetooth speaker... while I sit around drinking cheap ****ty beer... lol!

 

For the record... here is my current ripping process...

Rip & Process Method 2024-03-03:

1) SL1200M2 (KAB Mod)/KAB Reloop Concorde with STY40/Thick Technics rubber mat & Herbie's Audio Lab Way Excellent II Turntable Mat 3.7mm through Marantz2230B into Creative Sound Blaster X7 LTD White with iZotopeRX10 @ 192000Hz/32-bit float wav, one side per file.

2) Batch process files with iZotopeRX10 (JMO Vinyl Processing Preset = De-hum (JMO Low Pass & JMO High Pass) & DeClick (JMO Vinyl Declick Preset)).

3) Assess and apply Spectral De-noise (JMO New NR 20240130 Preset), Spectral Repair (Attenuate Preset – varying strength) & additional De-click (JMO Vinyl Declick Preset - varying sensitivity) as needed to each side, while adding markers and combining sides into one file. Save. [All with iZotopeRX10].

4) Open file in Adobe Audition. Apply EQ (JMO Vinyl EQ Preset), amplify volume, balance channels, fix clips (JMO Fix Clips (HL) Preset) [All as needed]. Apply fades to start and end of file. Save.

5) Split LP file with iZotopeRX10 (Export Regions to files).

6) Convert to FLAC – Batch processor (FLAC for iPhone (24-48) Preset).

7) Tag with Tag&Rename and add 1500x1500 artwork as scanned via HP Scanjet N9120 and stitched with Microsoft ICE. Tag album artist with Mp3tag.


Current Cleaning Methods:

- Pre-clean (as needed based on vinyl condition)
o Tergikleen (4 drops per qt.) then Distilled H20 with Disc Doctor cleaning brushes and Hudon HiFi Microfiber Cleaning Cloth.

- HumminGuru Ultrasonic Vinyl Record Cleaner
o Audio Intelligent Vinyl Solutions Enzymatic Ultrasonic Record Cleaning Machine Concentrate (4ml per 36oz distilled H2O)
o Cleaning & Drying cycles vary as needed.

- HumminGuru I-Brush Vinyl Record Cleaning Kit
o Used on LPs done with prior method or that need touch up.

- Clean albums placed in Hudson Hi-Fi Anti-Static Vinyl Record Inner Sleeves, unless they came with an anti-static sleeve.

Sylus care: KAB Soft Stylus Brush (each play), Flux HiFi Ultrasonic Electronic Stylus Cleaner (≈ beginning of Month), Mofi LP#9 Stylus Cleaner (≈ start of Week).
Static: Electric Candler Lighter & Giottos Rocket Air Blaster.

 

It's all about enjoying the music. I think you are on the right track. The fact no one else submitted a sample of the their work goes to show how difficult that sound is. This forum is great for finding tips. You get these people who have spent an incredible amount of time trying new things and they post how it's done so everyone can benefit. I've learned a lot from this forum over the decade and half I've been doing needle drops. WDeranged is right that sometimes you just have to hunt down that special album that is clear of issues. I've tossed my hands up at plenty of vinyl that was just too far gone. It's the way it is.

Try the water method to do the drop. Maybe it will work on the noise. You have nothing to loose. But like you and Icewater_7 have said that noise seems to be already processed. That's why I asked if you had an untouched drop as a sample. Let us know what you happens.

 

Wow... I would be happy with that and the 'removal of a lot of upper mids' given the situation. Sometimes you have to do what you have to do. How did you do it?

Just re-cleaned and reattempted... no improvement.
Just about to try the water method.

Edit for water method...
I didn't notice an improvement in the overall sound but since the left channel looked better, I gave it a listen and didn't hear any scuffs... so as I try to find an answer to my problem, I used the Mixing tool in Izotope and on the song's two quieter passages, I mixed to mono 'Left Channel Only'. So far, it's an option. I'll keep playing with it.

 

"How'd I do it?" Not really that long. I sent you the steps. If you have questions let me know.

 

Just checked the Tascam website for updated or newer recorders. I use both the DA-RA1000HD (modified by Jim Willians of Audio Upgrades) and a stock DA-3000. I was surprised to see that the DA-3000 was discontinued.

Anyone have suggestions for a better recorder now?

 

I moved from the DA-3000 to the DR-100 mkiii, and now to the Zoom F3. Each was an upgrade in my opinion.

 

The Zoom F3 field recorder...the hand-sized unit?

 

Is there any tool out there which one can use to import metadata for needle-drops?

Yes, I know how to perform the painful and 100% manual tagging process using MP3 Tag. But I don't know if there is any tool that one can use to pull metadata from one of the online databases and apply it to a group of flac files. It seems like such a tool should exist by now.

 

Yep! Amazingly capable little unit!
Captures in 32/192, battery so no noise, done several hundred LP transfers with it.

 

I own both of those, as well as a MyTek Stereo 96 ADC. IMO the best sounding of the bunch is the Stereo 96, with the Tascam 1000 being second, and the 3000 being just a smidge behind the 1000.

I'm tempted to modify my 3000 because its disappointing to have it not sound as good as does my 1000. And I'd like for it to be the best sounding device I own.

I LOVE the sound of my Mytek though.

 

So, thanks to the tips and conversations, I got this to a point where I am happy with it... let's say 'it does not offend my ear'.

Although the 'play with water' method did not eliminate the problem, i think it did improve things.
After re-cleaning and re-ripping, I took the raw file and completed the task I mentioned above ("since the left channel looked better, I gave it a listen and didn't hear any scuffs... so as I try to find an answer to my problem, I used the Mixing tool in Izotope and on the song's two quieter passages, I mixed to mono 'Left Channel Only'").
After that I took those two passages and went to 'Adobe Audition - Effects - Stereo Imagery - Graphic Phase Shifter - Mono to Stereo Preset'. For me, this gave the mono passages a little more life and coherency with the rest of the song.
From there, I beat the crap out of the gap between songs with varying degrees and passes with Spectral Denoise, Spectral Repair and De-click. I used to fade in and out of between song gaps to complete silence, but I have since come to enjoy a bit of ambient noise between the tracks, so this is not my typical method, but sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

Overall, I am pleased with how it came out. I'm able to enjoy listening to it on the go and to me, nothing about it jumps out as not fitting in with the flow of the rest of the vinyl rip.

Thanks again for all the help!

Here's some samples...

How It Started.flac

How It Ended Up.flac

Finished Clip.flac