Yes Japanese HDCDs vs. Rhino Remasters

Totally agree, Jamie! In fact, I am really disappointed that _Yesshows_ and _Yessongs_ weren't issued by Rhino. Those are essential Yes, afaic. The boxset will be nice but not the same. And _Yessongs_ is one of the great live albums ever, IMO. Some say it was never a sonic nirvana, and I agree, but I sure remember the vinyl and it always worked for me! What a powerful album! It always sounded totally live! Made me feel like I was there at the back of the hall! I'll take that over a bone dry soundboard feed, thank you.

 

"Tempus Fugit" probably had major airplay, I think. But anyway, _Drama_ sounds more like classic Yes than BG. I can see why BG isn't a big priority. Most of their faithful fans are probably much less concerned with it than _Drama_.

Now why they didn't remaster _Yessongs_? I have *no* idea!

 

Oh, that news sucks. I've looked forward to the Yesshows 1994 remaster, because they have united the two halves of my favorite live track ever, the 28-minute "Ritual."
How does the Japan mini-lp version of Yesshows sound?

 

Loud.

Just find an original Atlantic (Made In Japan). To my ears, this is the one to get and I suspect it was just a nice, flat transfer.

YMMV, of course.

 

Which pressings Jamie? I have these and think at the least they equal the original US. pressings and in some cases even better them. The HDCD's that I've heard sound terrible in comparison IMO.

Yes: Yes (Japan Forever Young Series) 18P2-2881
Yes: Fragile (Japan Forever Young Series) 20P2-2052
Yes: Classic Yes (Can. Atlantic) CD 19320
Yes: 90125 (W.German Target) 7 90125-2
Yes: Big Generater (Japan 1st) 32XD-559

 

OK- a little late to the party...

I have a real old Close to the Edge- don't know if its an original issue or not. I had it for sale at some yard sales/flea markets, but it never sold(that's a good thing).

I bought 2 or 3 of the first issue YES from Japan- Close to the Edge, Fragile, and can't temember the other. They ARE horrible- brittle- maxxed, and did I say they were terrible?

I have heard and read many good things about the Rhino's here- I know there were a number of threads in the past.

Chris

 

The Japanese Yessongs is the bomb! I love it.

 

Me too and I'm not a fan of HDCD but this one finally puts life to this great live set.

Joe L.

 

The HDCD versions.

 

Just an FYI - yourmusic.com has quite a few of the Rhino Yes remasters. At $5.99 or $4.99 you can't go wrong, IMO.

 

yeah, that Japanese "Fragile" is a classic. One of the worst sounding cds I have ever bought. Love the packaging though.

It has soured my longing for anything Japanese.

 

Thanks Jamie. This is the problem when we say "Japanese pressings" as opposed to which Japanese pressings we are talking about.

JohnG, try sticking with the Japanese masterings pre-1990 and you'll be fine 99% of the time.

 

Sorry, but "darker" is the last word I'd use to describe the HDCD. Waaaaay too much high-end boost, more than the original US or Rhino. Maybe "tinny" isn't as appropriate as "smiley-face EQd."

 

Rhino has also yet to do the Big Generator album, which was part of the HDCD series. I had a few and while not horrible, in most cases the new Rhinos are as bit better.

 

I know, I bought the JPN cds too. I couldn't believe how nasty they sounded. I thought is was because I didn't have a HDCD decoder.

 

I bought Fragile, CTTE, Yessongs, TFTO and Relayer. Yessongs is all that remains. With respect to Fragile , I suspect any release would have been better - I have never heard such distortion introduced to a reasonable recording. Great covers however. Yessongs is in the original multifold format and sounds good - it's a 3 disc set. Possibly mastered from a very clean vinyl copy however (listen to the ends of the old vinyl sides for very slight clicks - I'm not sure if they were in the tape or vinyl surfaces).
I was wondering about the very LOUD sound on some of these releases - didn't HDCD decoding require a 6dB drop in volume along the line somewhere. I seem to remember that the licence for usage of the PM HDCD decoder meant that ordinary discs had to be reduced in volume by 6dB to make sure that HDCD discs didn't sound too soft compared with a normal disc. Can anyone clear the fog? Maybe someone at the Japanese factory decided that they had another way to get around the 6dB volume drop!!

 

This doesn't really answer the previous question, but I've noticed that ALL of my HDCDs, not just the Japanese Yes remasters, are louder than most other CDs. Whether its inherent in the format or a result of mastering decisions I have no idea.

 

There is a continued misconception on this forum that HDCD sucks. I'm so sorry to say it's not the HDCD formating that is the issue but poor mastering choices. The Pacific Microsonic converters are thought of very highly among many respected mastering engineers. Kevin Gray even has one at Acous Tech. I know Steve prefers the sound of other converters and that's fine but that's absolutely no reason to say there's something inherently wrong with HDCD CD's as I have way too many great sounding HDCD CD's.

I have a close friend that records classical music and I trust his ears more than just about anybody. He bought the Pacific Microsonics converters to use as his main converters several years ago. At the time he said they were the best he's heard. Technology moves on and he now uses a more current converter but those recordings he made using that converter still sound absolutely amazing. Goto Ivory Classics to hear them.

I've also had many things mastered by Hank Williams using the HDCD encoder. Sure sounded good to me.

Unless you have personal experience with theses converters or are educated about them I'd stop blaming HDCD for "hot levels" and "harsh sound" and start blaming the mastering engineer because it's his fault. Any incompetent can make even the best gear sound like crap. End of Rant....

 

Generally speaking, I am a fan of HDCDs. For example, I think that the Joni Mitchell re-masters are fantastic. However, I have learned that the HDCD designation does not guarantee a great sounding CD. It's only one factor (although a major one) contributing to the overall sound. I remember purchasing a European import of 'Starless and Bible Black: 30th Anniversary Version' by King Crimson which was an HDCD. It sounded horrible. It is the only CD that I have ever returned to the retailer and explicitly stated that the CD's sound was my reason for the return.

 

I believe the new Audio Fidelity Gold HDCD's will verify this misconception.