Yes Fragile MFSL

The Japanese HDCD did the equalising for you and it sounds worse. The peak related distortion stands out even more.

 

Well, I've never heard that particular version, I just know that there are some qualities of the Diament CD I really like, when I play with the EQ a bit. Not saying it's the best version (I like the Gastwirt), but I keep it because I do enjoy it from time to time.

 

The Joe Gastwirt is great. I made a big mistake selling the Atlantic gold CD box (as the booklet and presentation are fabulous) The sound is the same as the regular remastered version - very good. No obvious distortion. Put on some headphones and have a close listen to loud peaks of the original un-remastered Atlantic CD. The distortion is very obvious there. My comments about soundstage before relate to.....who cares. It's a dull and distorted mess and better soundstaging under those circumstances isn't something acceptable IMHO. Again, this is NOT directed at Barry Diament. He had no choice of tape in those days. Thanks, in large part to our host, finding the original master tape is now a prime requirement of a remaster. And, make no mistake, the original Atlantic could NOT have been the original stereo master, as the Atlantic remaster, the Rhino and the MFSL together sound distortion free compared with the Atlantic original CD.

 

John, nobody's claiming it's a sonic masterpiece!! I agree that it's a fun, nostalgic listen especially when cranked in the car. It takes me back to my old beat up vinyl played on my old beat up stereo back in the day. The bass on this ugly sucker is MONSTER...and it's just fun to listen to. As far as Barry goes, he's admitted quite often that he didn't have a clue WHAT tapes he was given or using on much of his work...yet some people here claim those particular CDs are nirvana, because he's such a great mastering engineer. Which I do not doubt in the least. But seems like the issue of tape source becomes highly subjective here depending on one's preference.

 

Gary, I'm taking a chill pill and smiling here. He is a great mastering engineer - check out "Houses Of The Holy" and any ELP CD he did - still the best.
Fragile bothers me a little due to the past praise for the Japanese HDCD, which was ear shreddingly bad and sooooooo easy to hear that I though people must have been baiting me. And I make no claims to being able to hear differences between identical bits CDs. When an original unremastered Atlantic CD turned up, it sounded like a duller version of that Japanese CD. It's my problem, and I can't help wondering what would have happened if Barry had the same tapes as Joe Gastwirt etc had. There would be no argument whatsoever about which would be the reference version, IMHO.

 

Well Mofi may have played a role there too seeing as how they pre-date DCC and all.

 

Hahaha...John, I'm right with you on the Japanese Yes HDCDs...a sonic disaster if ever there was one (and not just Fragile...) How anyone could defend that godawful piece of s**t is beyond me. I'm a huge fan of Barry's work, have all his Led Zep, Genesis, Yes CDs. Would love to have heard his work on Fragile with a decent tape, too, trust me. Or the Genesis remasters he did that were never released. Oh well, not meant to be I guess.

 

I just got the MFSL today. I'm finding it a bit harsh. Having been used to the Porky cut and more recently Steve's brilliant remastering I guess I've been spoilt. I'm going to have to play them all again and see.

 

Yeah, nice wide stereo, nice detail, but a bit harsh.

I bought this one, and I have listened to Coltrane's Soultrane: harsh as well. No impulsive buying anymore!

 

for me the Rhino DVD-Audio sounds best

the MFSL gold cd also sounds good but the DVD-A is a killer!

 

The DVD-Audio is way too compressed.

 

I like the MFSL of Fragile, but I do think it does get a bit too bright on South Side Of The Sky. That tune seems to be lacking a bit in the mix department when compared with the other tracks.

A nice alternative is the gold CD put out by Atlantic in 1993. It sounds warmer overall--which indeed helps South Side--but it lacks the sparkle of the MFSL. So, name your poison, and make your choice.

 

I have to agree with you on this one.

 

yes is, for all intents and purposes, a very "trebly" band.

rickenbacher bass and anderson's voice, along with howe's playing, all very high pitched to begin with.

 

I think the MFSL Fragile is excellent. Likewise the Yes Album. Regularly played and thoroughly enjoyable.

 

I haven't listened to Porky's for a while but IIRC it is also trebly.

 

lol. This isn't my first Yes CD actually, although I appreciate the lesson.
Very familiar with how Yes sound - I'm almost 50!!! Last count I have 5 LP's of Fragile - US, UK, SHKG, GERMAN, NZ PORKY/PIROS, Rhino CD and now this MFSL. So pretty familiar with how Yes should sound. But that treble can be sweet and doesn't need to shred my ears And Squires Ricky although having the characteristic twang can still blow my balls off!!!

Also - and people often seem to ignore this fact. Unless everyone has the exact same audio equipment/listening space it's almost impossible to compare anything. Everyone will achieve something original to their own set-up. As long as they like what they hear then it's all good. Trouble is when someone else recommends basing that on their own individual preference which may not work for another person for all the reasons just mentioned. One mans meat etc etc...

 

I think this needs to be clarified..
There was an Atlantic released in 1986 with the UPC 7567815312 and 250 009 on the CD, and there was another Atlantic released in 1990 with the UPC 0 7567-81531-2 9. I believe these two CDs have different masterings. The 1990 is Barry's, and the 1986 is a flat transfer from the master tapes.

 

This isn't true.

All CDs before the Gastwirt are Barry Diament's original mastering. I think the only exception is some Japanese release from like 1992 (AMCY-363).

 

Then what about the versions with no UPC's on the back?

 

Definitely Barry's work.

 

I just took deliver of an original Canadian copy of this disc and I'm inclined to agree. Not sure if it's better than the Gastwirt, but if playing around with the EQ a bit is not off limits to you, it can sound great. Mine is CD 19132, WEA Music Canada, barcoded - 0 7567-81531-2 9.

 

So today I'm making a new Yes comp cd to play in the car when I'm out traveling and I pull all my cd's.
Just for the off chance I grabbed my copy of Barry's "Classic Yes"
I ripped and compared "Heart Of the Sunrise" between the Gastwirt Fragile and I gotta say I'm liking
the sound of the Classic Yes version. Yeah it's dull sounding and needs some hi end boost but even at
+3db it sounds more natural than the Gastwirt version. It's slightly more dynamic too IMHO.
It's just got a fuller sounding bottom end.

Needless to say I just now hopped on over to the Amazon used marketplace and
snatched up a copy of Barry's Fragile. Time will tell I suppose and when I have
more cash I will look into getting the Mofi.

 

Just a word of warning--Barry's Classic Yes is generally considered really great, but his Fragile is not (although it has its admirers). The Fragile songs on Classic Yes probably come from a different (and superior) source tape.

 

Thanks for the heads up. Luckily I only paid $5.00 including shipping so at least I didn't spend much if it sucks.
On the other hand I scored someearly Atco/Atlantic Genesis today but I'll post that in another thread

Maybe next pay day I'll look for the MFSL Fragile and grab that.