Wilco fans-What are your thought's on Jay Bennett?

I'm not a big Wilco fan, but Jay Bennett (and the rest of Wilco minus Tweedy) backed up Steve Forbert on his 1996 cd, Rocking Horse Head. Forbert has a very Tweedy-ish voice.

 

I have a buddy who played in a band that opened up for Wilco during the Being There tour. He had not followed what had happened with Wilco before or since, so he was simply an extemporaneous backstage observer. His impression was that Jay Bennett was an insufferable personality, a "real jerk who couldn't stop talking about himself."

I love YHF, but I love Sky Blue Sky just as much. Curiously, I have always been lukewarm on Summerteeth and had struggled to figure out why it never grabbed me properly until I listened to it again a few weeks ago, not long after my band had wrapped up production on our current recording project (so I had a fresh perspective to everything I was listening to). The problem with Summerteeth is that it's just too darned busy. Beautiful songs like "She's a Jar" are bogged down with production elements that simply detract more than they add. There doesn't seem to be much method to the madness (YHF is much more focused in comparison). To the extent that this was Bennett's doing (and I suspect it was to a large extent), I think he did that particular record a disservice.

And for all the noise about Wilco being a revolving door of musicians, I seriously think that the current lineup will be around for a while. Four years now (the longest stable lineup in Wilco's history) and there appear to be no personality issues.

 

There are some bands that operate as collectives with joint songwriting (REM, U2) and some that are dominated by one (Wilco, Porcupine Tree, The Who, the Kinks) or two (Stones, Beatles) creative leaders. Wilco is dominated by Jeff Tweedy, and IMO that has worked really well. Do the others have input? I'm sure they do, and many if not most of the songs have joint songwriting credit reflecting that. But, in the end it's Jeff's band, and he calls the shots.

 

My understanding was it had to be taken out of Bennett's hands to get that degree of focus.

 

I feel the same way. Actually I love everything from Being There through Sky Blue Sky (I like A.M., but not as much).

I hope you're right. I think this is a great line-up, and a great live band.

 

Too bad they didn't focus just a little bit more and edit out the unnecessary ear-splitting feedback endings for a couple of the songs. I'm glad that Sky Blue Sky is free of those noisefests.

 

I'm not wild about some of the feedback endings either (especially on Ghost is Born). Not a problem on cd where I can just skip ahead, but on vinyl it's annoying.

 

Note that Sky Blue Sky is the first Wilco record since Tweedy got his migraine and painkiller issues under control and the feedback-fests have gone away. This is not a coincidence.

 

Short answer I love what Jay Bennett brough to Wilco, with him they made their best records:

Being There
Summerteeth
Yankee Hotel Foxtrot

are WILCO's best records. I have never met anyone who got into this band pre 2002 who doesn't think so.

Jay Bennett had a lot to do with it, but just as much as not more is that fact that these were the record's with Tweedy's best material. Was JB a catalyst for Jeff to write and play and push himself as hard? Maybe, maybe not.

It is so complicated but most artists have their runs and Jeff Tweedy's happened to be during this era. The cause and effect is hard to quantify or pin point.

Was JB an INCREDIBLE asset to the records he played on, you're damn right.

The majority of Wilco fans have come on along in the past 6 years and have been influenced by:
-the DVD
-Kot's Book.

In the wake of these it was very common for those late to the party to
mock JB and denigrate his contributions to Wilco, in an attempt to over compensate for their newness as fans.

I say that is bull ****. Listen to Summerteeth. That record is ALL about Jay Bennett. It is also about Jeff Tweedy too and what he was going through then. Bottom line it is a musical peak by in large because of the relationship between these two musicians.

Is/was JB an over the top guy with a lot of issues. You betcha.

Jeff Tweedy has worked through a lot in his life, and by all accounts has a lot better quality of life now on MANY fronts.

As the years pass, JB and JT in fact parted ways 7 years ago this weekend, I don't think its a matter of comparison, or which would rather have play with Wilco anymore. Those days are long gone I don't think Jeff Tweedy will EVER play music with either of his old Jays. JT continues to do nice work, some is good, some is great, some is middle of the road.

I am glad that by all accounts Jeff is healthier and happier now than he has ever been. I am glad we have the records, shows and unreleased music from the 6 years that Bennett and Tweedy worked together: it is some of the finest created in the past 35 years.

C

 

Anyone have his older band's material - Titanic Love Affair?? Fans of the 'Mats might like their releases.

 

Besides "It's Not That Simple", Wilco recorded "My Darling", which is approximately 90 % Jay Bennett (Tweedy wrote a verse), "Pieholden Suite", which is also mostly Bennett, even if the credits on "Summerteeth" are deliberately vague and give the illusion of a democracy. "My Darling" was re-recorded by Bennett on a solo album and he was credited as the sole writer.

YHF credits a lot of co-writes with Bennett. AGIB has a few (mostly with Mikael Jorgensen and Kotche). SBS has separate co-writes with Nels Cline, Jorgensen and Kotche (on a B-side) and four songs have collective credits for the music.

Then you get the "Mermaid Avenue" albums, on which Bennett played a proeminent part. And the Loose Fur albums, where Tweedy shares the duties with Jim O'Rourke, who doesn't seem to be an easy guy.


By the way, I had the luck to interview Jeff Tweedy a few years ago. I previously had the feeling that Bennett was a talented guy of whom Tweedy was a little jealous and that his dismissal had put an end to a golden age.

Actually, according to Tweedy, and it confirms what other people have said here and the Kot book, Bennett had a few issues of his own, which put Tweedy in a difficult situation, as he had to cope with his problems and struggle with Bennett's endless flow of ideas, good or bad. Bennett was hyperactive in the studio and hated empty tracks when they recorded. So, he had this huge collection of instruments in the collective loft and recorded many overdubs.

It made mixing a nightmare, especially when Bennett was around, as he wanted his parts to be upfront, not buried in the mix (remember the scene in "I Am Trying To Break Your Heart"). On "Summerteeth", Tweedy and Bennett were able to work the thing out, even it was painful, but (according to Kot), Stirratt and Ken Coomer felt estranged, some of their parts were re-recorded by Bennett and it's true that the finished album is very ProToolsy.

On YHF, Tweedy called O'Rourke as he was afraid of having one more argument with Bennett. O'Rourke tried to find back a structure that had been lost with the numerous layers. According to Tweedy, the deconstructive mood on YHF (my words) was their attempt at the mixing stage to save the sessions.

Bennett's leaving brought room to everybody. Litterally: he took back his instruments, that had filled their loft (Tweedy's words). And now, look what has happened. Bennett has recorded several albums. Most of them suffer of too much studio trickery and too many overdubs. Stirratt has expressed in interviews that it's much easier to contribute to the arrangements and that things have improved since the Bennett years.


Since the firing, in summer 2001, Wilco has lost one single band member, LeRoy Bach, who wanted to settle down in Chicago and leave touring. John Stirratt has recorded three albums, two with Pat Sansone as The Autumn Defense (plus a joint EP with Hem) and one with his twin sister (his best collection of songs so far). Glenn Kotche and Nels Cline have recorded and released their own solo projects, while they were already members of the band.

If Wilco is a dictatorship, send me to Zimbabwe. Tweedy might have been quite intolerant with Bennett trying his own thing when Wilco was a struggling band but the current line-up has lasted four full years and no inner conflict has surfaced so far.

 

Completely agree. Listening to the Past 2 albums (which are very good), in hindsight, it really feels like the real spark that was in the band, that fire crackling hotness depended on the creative tension. I hate to say it because I don't believe that all true art requires suffering, but in this case, they're all getting along so well that it's simply a different creative beast altogether now. Not any worse, mind you, just less interesting.
And Jeff Tweedy will definitely never work with either Jay again. He's got exactly what he wanted, and I don't begrudge him for a minute. It reminds me of why Gilmour will never work with Waters again. Wish it would happen, but don't blame him either.

The hardest thing to watch now that seems to embody what was good about Jeff and Jays' relationshipis the scene in IATTBYH where they're playing "Cars Can't escape" With Jeff on Acoustic, and Jay on Piano. It makes me want more of that.

 

I totally got that vibe from the film hence my "Mad Scientist" reference (running around the studio, frazzled hair and glasses, etc..) to Jay in my original post.

 

Personalities aside, musically speaking, Jay & Jeff have both creatively made good cds after Jay left Wilco. The Palace at 4 am, the great defeat, and bigger than blue are really good albums particularly Palace. If you want to see what Jay's contributions to Summerteeth were, listen to Jay's: the Palace at 4 am cd.
I liked Ghost but love Sky Blue Sky. Both artists have moved on to do good work and the past is past. I have read Jay Bennett has tried to contact Jeff Tweedy and has been very gracious about his departure from Wilco. Good Luck to both of them.
Jim
PS. I love Summerteeth. I have played this cd to death.

 

i agree with cassius.. jay bennett was wilco's cats miau....

 

I got into Wilco on the AM tour, and feel that Sky Blue Sky and AGIB are both far superior to Being There, which has some songs that should've been left off ("Dreamer in My Dreams" being one of the most obvious) and Summerteeth, which is a mess production-wise.

Umm, you're insulting a lot of people here just because they came late to the party. Doesn't mean that their musical opinions are any less worthy than anyone else's. The other-side-of-the-coin argument is that nostalgia is coloring your musical judgement. I would argue that there are easily three or more songs on each of the first three albums which are weaker in terms of craft and execution than anything on the last three. Look, I've been around since the beginning and I have a very different opinion than you do about those albums, specifically Being There and Summerteeth. I like those albums, but they're just plain uneven.

 

Another Bennett-released track that dates from the Wilco days is "Shakin' Sugar," which ended up on Jay's The Palace at 4am album with Edward Burch.
Tweedy played this track during his solo acoustic shows circa 2000, and has a co-write credit on the album. There is another song on that album, "Venus Stopped the Train," that carries a Bennett/Tweedy songwriting credit. Don't think I've heard that one.

 

Been a fan since Being There, wasn't too into A.M (or Uncle Tupelo for that matter, whose final tour I caught). Bennet was a great addition to the band as a sideman and production assistant. Left to his own devices he puts too much crap into the mix, as is evident on his unlistenable solo albums. Palace at 4 AM is brilliant, but consider that it was done again with a collaborator (Edward Burch) and with some co-writes from Tweedy. As for the live band, I've seen every tour since BT, and none have disappointed. However, since cleaning up Tweedy has taken on a more relaxed, affable stage presence, and the latest outfit does the best ensemble/jam thing of any. Any time I saw them with Bennett he acted like the superior rock-star prick, spotlight stage left, thank you.

TB

 

Killer pop tune, by the way....

 

I have to agree with this. Nels Cline is an extremely talented musician, but does flirt with dangerously prog wank-off solos that are as egotistical in their own way as anything stupid that Jay Bennett did or said in the Yankee Hotel Foxtrot documentary.

My take on Bennett is that he is the modern Brian Jones - a gifted multi-instrumentalist and embellisher of the songs written by the egomaniacal leader(s) of his band, but suffering from the fatal flaw of (1) wanting to be the leader of his band while simultaneously (2) lacking the ability to create songs on his own that are as good as the songs that he and the bandleader created together. Mick and Keith never could have realized their best psychedelic tracks such as "Ruby Tuesday" and "2,000 Light Years From Home" without Jones, and Wilco couldn't have realized their masterpieces Summerteeth and Yankee Hotel Foxtrot without Bennett. Ghost and Sky Blue Sky are very good records, but there is something magic about the previous two - and all available evidence points to that something having been the presence of Bennett.

 

I can see that Being There might not be everyone's cup of tea. However I think 2/3 of Sky Blue Sky is average to piss poor.

I like a lot of the things that Jeff has done since their split, and think that AGIB is a dark near mini masterpiece.

Summerteeth is busy productions wise, but not any less busy than YHF, and the songs, melodies, and playing is stronger overall in my opinion.

My point was to say that Jeff's best writing coincided with JBs time in the band. Every artist has those peak moments, and I don't mean to denigrate anyone's love of all thing Jeff Tweedy, for me I think the records from 97-01 will end up being the measuring stick.

Sky Blue Sky has material that is completely different/new fresh/ mellow and beautiful but has also has songs soo bad that I wonder how Stirrat and the rest kept a straight face when Jeff first brought them into the loft (many years of practice I guess) It might be a cheap shot to accuse them of being yes men, but JB or someone else with enough balls would have called ******** on at least a few of those and the result would be a stronger LP of music.

This isn't a personal attack on Tweedy, he is a good soul, and went out of his way to accomodate me one time when I wrote to him as a fan. He has created beautiful music, and I am happier with the idea of him not having some catalyst around who might make for better records, but not a clear head. Does that make sense?


C

 

I really dig the Brian Jones anaology, it works for me.

 

If I'm not mistaken, quite a few of the songs on Ghost, including "Spiders" and "Handshake Drugs," date to Bennett's time in the band. Some of these songs were played live prior to the release of YHF, if I'm not mistaken. Which goes a way towards explaining why the real signs of a drop-off in the quality in Tweedy's writing ("Shake It Off," "Either Way," etc.) didn't occur until Sky Blue Sky.

 

I don't think Bennett had much to do with the writing of those songs. After listening to Bennett's solo work it's obvious that he isn't much of a songwriter. I think that except for My Darling Tweedy was the primary songwriter on all of the Summerteeth/YHF stuff.

 

He probably got credit because he contributed musical ideas. (He's credited for a number of songs on the Mermaid Avenue albums, where of course neither of them wrote any words, so my guess is this is more where he helped out on the writing).