I didn't read the thread. It is a loaded term, often used for some scientifically inexplicable "tweak" that some vocal critics regard as a scam. I believe in sorting all the basics first. From the power that comes into the property. And getting each step sorted in a way that is compatible and results in some synergy--the goal is not to be listening to the system, but hearing music. There are many ways to do that. After that, tweak away. You can change the sound; whether you improve it is a different question. There are plenty of almost no cost things you can do to improve your system, starting with set up in the particular room.
At the very least this. Most replies to him are really insensitive and the many underlying personal attacks in them are uncalled for and distasteful to read IMO.
You will find I get attacked here more than anyone else. Many are so degrading the moderators remove the posts. I usually post scientific facts and some do not like the posts as you call them insensitive. They are just proven facts. I also posted a person here should consider upgrading their $150 speakers and they have been attacking me multiple times over it during the last 2 months with one post calling me a child of 8 years old mentality. And, it goes on and on.
Is it true that only when different power companies feeding left and right channels one can achieve total channel separation bliss?
Honestly seems like the title of the thread is loaded. I think "snake oil" is more universally despised. You mention "some vocal critics" as if they are the odd guy out, but in my experiences on forums, most are able to sniff out snake oil based on the silly claims, lack of any verifiable measurements, and just common sense most times. Those peddling snake oil, or at the very least "Raving on" about it, never seem to be able to explain anything about why or how it works, and usually zero details or measurements. I see the terms "Just trust me!" "I know what I hear" "I can trust my ears" "made a huge difference" and similar terms bandied about often. But any substance........few and far between.... Anyone questioning, gets the old tired....."Try it you will see" or "Maybe your ears are just not as good", "Your equipment is not resolving enough"......
Aftermarket Power Cords. I know all the arguments against this. I still don't understand why it makes a difference. But it does. "What about all the romex from the transformer to the wall plate?" "Any shielded cable should be fine" I even had the designer of my amp tell me don't waste your money on an aftermarket fancy power cord.
I still remember reviews of Tice audio clock, which was "amazing" and made a " huge difference". Also taping pennies to a window, Shantu stones, audio pebbles and keeping cd cases in a freezer while cd is playing. And those are relatively cheap one, unlike $5000 record weights and $1000 pure silver grounding wires.
You are looking at it from a purely Scientific/Electronics Viewpoint, and possibly missing the human part of the listening equation. A microphone to meter will hear the exact same way literally every time. A human, "Perceives" sound and interprets it in our brain. Many variables at play. I often find Caffeine intake, Morning versus evening listening, and even rainy days will subtly alter how my system sounds....."To me". The system is not altered, but I most likely am. We listen differently after making an alteration to our systems, even when we try not to.
The term "performance" is vague. What is that thing you want to improve? What are the weakness the device or process you seek will actually correct? How will you measure that increase?
Sharing a couple of my experiences / opinions / suggestions: re: power conditioning - yes it will likely "change" the sound, but not always be an "improvement" Suggest auditioning in your home for a week or so before committing to purchase. Personally, I don't like the trade-offs * Yes, lower noise floor, increased resolution, more details... * but at the expense of the flow, drive and emotion of the music to my ear So I use simple, high grade, stranded power cables plugged directly into the wall sockets ~ separate circuits for my amplification -and- CD player & turntable power supply While I don't know which musical genres you listen to regularly nor what aspect(s) of playback you are looking to "improve"... regardless, I do not understand why you would close the door to upgrading your cables out of hand. If you listen primarily to acoustic, singer song-writers, small scale jazz and classical... I would strongly encourage you to audition TARA Labs "Rectangular Solid Core" (RSC) interconnects and speaker cables. I was introduced to the brand in the late 90's and have not been without them in my system since. They simply sound more natural, like live music than any other cables I have listened to... If you don't have a local dealer, TL will send you cables to audition, I think you might just have to pay the return shipping... Anyway, for what it's worth, I hope this is useful... Happy listening
Completely agree. There is quite a different sonic character to both interconnects and, surprisingly, power cords. I had one entry level power cord from Shunyata that initially sounded like an improvement, but as you said, it seemed to disrupt the flow / timing of the music. I also tried a Cardas Cross power cord but it seemed to muddy the sound. I've since replaced them with a heavy gauge Transparent audio on my amplifier and a XLO Reference on the CD player. Both of these made a huge improvement to both the clarity and the pace rhythm and timing.
Snake oil products are only worth buying if you come across one in a thrift store for very cheap prices, and then you throw the item away. Such as those CD shavers, demagnetizers, rewinders, etc.
@Jim0830, I thought we might briefly revisit the discussion we were having regarding equipment isolation where I made the underlined statements above. This is not in any way an attempt to discredit your point of view on the subject but as things go it popped into my head where I read about the British product I was referring to and it so happens that they are very much still a going concern and you or anyone following this thread might find their position on the subject interesting. I have included a link to the Townsend Seismic Sink which I hope you will enjoy. Home - www.townshendaudio.com
Rather than starting a new thread I will share here... Benchmark Weighs In On Audiophile Snake Oil "Can you hear the difference?" ummm, not really... "If not, are you really an audiophile?" errr, I guess not... "Be the guy that invests in great music. Be the guy who invests in great speakers. Be the guy that purchases room acoustic treatments. Be the guy who purchases noise-free distortion-free electronic components. Be the guy who listens to music. Be a true audiophile." Audiophile Checklist* Music Speakers Room Treatments Power Amplifier Preamplifier & DAC Cables * Sorted by importance (1 is highest priority) I'm inclined to agree with the checklist. But the one thing I've failed to explore or implement is #3, because of the fact I can't make structural mods to the property I rent, and because I really value having many framed pictures on my wall, and live in tight quarters without much room even for optimal speaker placement. So I make do...
Same here. I’m at a point now where improvements are only audible through headphones because those take the room out of the equation. The sound quality improvements on speakers are limited by the room, so I don’t feel like investing in better speakers/poweramp anymore until I move to another space that allows proper treatment. Yet another reason for me to prioritize the source over the speakers in terms of upgrades. Does that make me less of an audiophile, because a real audiophile would be so dedicated that he compromises on the limited space in order to “force” in some room treatments? Maybe, but I don’t really consider myself a real audiophile anyways (relatives/friends do though).
I don't think I would want to live without my Townshend super tweeters and yet for the most part you can't even hear them working. They start out at 7K and go right on up to 100K. Nothing to hear there-right? Snake oil! And yet the BASS is so much cleaner with them playing. And the ability to point them all around the room looking for a spot to "fill in" is marvelous. They can be moved in and out of "correct timing" to increase or decrease their apparent volume simply by time aligning them with the main drivers and then moving them in front of and behind their power spot. Messing with time alignment is the final frontier on setup tuning. It's fun to move these handly little critters. Turns out the violins really love having super detailed reverb tails in the far back corners of the front wall. Makes them sound magical! So how about some super tweets? Make sure their sensitivity will match your mains. And the crossover point needs to make you happy. I had no need for better mids with Harbeths. Just a smidge more extension up top was nice out in the large room where they tend to get a bit lost. And the extra bass was a surprise! Says right in their brochure to expect a jump in bass quality. Not one bit of snake oil involved. Only 100% MAGIC. VooDoo! Just the way I like it! The Doc
Interesting. Never heard of this. We audiophiles love tweaking and tinkering with stuff, especially if it makes a really audible difference. I'm not exempt on that count (mostly with software, it's cheaper and easier than swapping out cables and hardware for someone with back pain like me).
What "good" "snake oil" does is fix up or improve some of the areas where a playback chain is below par - one of the things I learnt decades ago is that all rigs are defective, to a lesser or greater degree - being polite, you call this, system "signature" . The obvious goal therefore becomes to mimimise the audible impact of weaknesses that do the most damage to the sound - there's an excellent analogy in the world of vision: with three TV sets we've had over the years, each bigger than the one before, when you first switch it on, it looks 'wrong' - it's not sharp, the colours are well out of alignment; when you watch it, there's a cartoony quality to everything. Over days and weeks I work out the precise set of settings, everywhere within the TV's menus, to bring the picture into the "real world" - here, the snake oil's included, fortunately, by the manufacturer . When you get it "into the zone", there's a sense of rightness to everything you watch ... very satisfying. In audio, you have to supply the setting adjustments. And work out how to get them in best alignment. Not easy, but the end result will be well worth it ... you can call it "snake oil", but the right things added into the mix can be the difference between a sound that always nails it, versus a system that is never "quite right" ...
Yeah, the whole supertweeter thing is very interesting. I got hooked a few weeks ago when a friend brought a newly purchased pair of LCY's over for me to listen to in my system after hearing them in his. My system is a little lower socio-economic than his is and the idea of spending $1000 U.S. or $1500 Cnd on a pair of supertweeters to pop onto my speakers which I purchased in the used market for $1100 Cnd was a bit more than I could handle lol. But purchased these for a song to experiment with and they are working out very well! I think I would have a real problem getting rid of them and may consider going a bit more upmarket (in supertweeters) at some point in the future. What they do in the bass and midrange when properly set up is I think even more impressive-or at least equally as impressive as what they accomplish with higher frequencies, which is really quite amazing and not at all expected. I had no preconceived notions as to what they should or shouldn't do before experiencing the LCY's or these which I've just purchased. I do think that many that have no experience with supertweeters (or perhaps some that have experience with some that may not be particularly great) think of them as primarily "boosting" high frequencies or treble, and it is really not at all about that. I have these crossed over at 14K. They are not as extended as the LCY's (or your Townshends), only getting up to about 35K I believe, but they do a lot of the same things. Definitely mucho voodoo haha! And serious accusations of snake oil from many on a recent thread at Canuck Audio Mart!
