Vintage Tannoy Lancaster speakers - Which amp?*

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by babylux, Sep 15, 2007.

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  1. babylux

    babylux New Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Cologne, Germany
    Dear HG, dear all,

    as a newbie I did not foresee the resonance this thread would get and the directions it would go. Therefore I initially did not mention the amps I currently use. Instead I focussed on the question which amps already did stand the practical test in combination with my speakers or the likes in true and everyday life. Perhaps this approach was too narrow-minded.

    So here is the data my current amplification:
    - pre: Linn Majik (formerly used as intergrated amp)
    - power: Linn AV 5105 (multichannel amp)

    As I wrote before I want to give the speakers one more chance (perhaps even two or three). That means that they are not (yet) subject to the disposition. I am willing to try out (nearly) anything else first. I know this is irrational but that´s how love always will be:love:.

    In case even the recommended amps would not lead up to a satisfying result :shake: I would continue with the speakers (wiring, xover, membranes). If this still did not solve the problem I would consider the replacement of the speakers (promised!:agree:).

    Regards
    Martin
     
    babylux, Sep 25, 2007
    #26
  2. Mad shadows

    Mad shadows Senior Member

    Location:
    Karlskrona- Sweden
    I use my Tannoy Arden with pre/power combination from Electrcompaniet (EC-3 & AW60FTT).
     
    Mad shadows, Sep 25, 2007
    #27
  3. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Babylux, I think that the "problem" you are experiencing is that your electronics do not match your speakers. Linn is a great brand and so is Tannoy. But they don't match, there is little or no system synergy.

    I had that problem but the opposite way - I had vintage McIntosh tube amps ("slow") with modern, "fast" speakers. I really can't describe it properly but there was something wrong (that I could not articulate) and I was not satisfied with the sound.

    I tried the Tannoys (a "slow" vintage speaker) and the match was impressive. And so was the sound. Every day I appreciate the results of this system matching more and more. And that includes the detail that I had thought lost with removing my previous speakers.

    Can you borrow a vintage tube amp or receiver? Or maybe even a vintage solid state receiver might give you a taste of the potential of your speakers.

    Don't give up. There be gold in thar hills! :D
     
    Gary, Sep 25, 2007
    #28
  4. WHitese

    WHitese Senior Member

    Location:
    North Bergen, NJ
    Gary...but doesnt slow plus slow equal slower? I always tried to use sensitive modern speakers so that all the character of the amp would shine through without speaker coloration.

    I wonder if we all have a different perception of slow? because I have a Pilot 7591 output tube int amp that I am running with JBL L96 and EV12trxb, and the differences are mainly speaker related, but the amp has great snap and pace.

    Can you describe across the freq spectrum what you think of your Tann-Mc setup? I will be going Pilot-Tannoy HPD385 route soon.
     
    WHitese, Sep 25, 2007
    #29
  5. ROLO46

    ROLO46 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Stroud,Gloucestershire, England
    Babylux carry on with the search for the Grail...

    The Linns are not a good match

    Search out or borrow some valve amps of moderate grunt

    Tannoys need plenty of space for their 'voice' to throw correctly

    And need to be driven quite hard with a small amp for the big cab to 'work'

    They don't need monsters .

    They can produce the sound of music which could (on the right day) sound almost like the real thing....

    Roger IMHO
     
    ROLO46, Sep 26, 2007
    #30
  6. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Ummm, no.... don't think so. I think the system is limited by the slowest component (sort of like when a ship convoy crossing the Atlantic sets sail at the speed of the slowest ship.) If you have a fast amp and slow speakers, the system will be limited by the speakers. If you have fast speakers and a slow amp, the speakers can only reproduce what they receive.

    So, logically speaking, it would be better to have a fast speaker and a slow amp than a fast amp and a slow speaker.

    But I'm really no expert - perhaps someone else can chime in here. I could be totally wrong! :shrug:

    Nope! Can't do the technical thing. Actually, won't do the technical thing might be closer to the truth.... :D

    My description? Magical midrange. Sounds very real - from vocals to guitars and whatever else is in the mix. I have a friend who's jaw hit the floor when Pete Townsend's guitar kicked in during the playing of a song. Realism.

    High end? The HPD385 goes to 20khz so there is no roll off as with the older Monitor Golds (and I say that with not having heard the Monitor Golds so I could be wrong about the roll off - this is what I read on this forum). I have no problem with the high end at all. BUT if you have the wrong wiring (interconnects or speaker cable) you'll be in trouble. I have found that the Monster speaker cable with generic patch cords (the kind that used to be free when you bought a cassette deck or that you can find in the Home Depot for less than $5.00) sound best. Othewise that horn tweeter will be too powerful/honky.

    Bass? Depends on the cabinet. I have Berkeleys which, I think, are supposed to go down to.... 25? And the Ardens, with the bigger cabinets, to 20? Or was that 30 and 25? :shrug: I have no problems with the bass in my system - and I have other speakers in other systems that go deeper. But all is forgiven when you hear that midrange - where most of the musical information is anyway.

    Power. You won't believe it and I am sure others will roll their eyes at me, but I was astonished at the result when I switched my Foundation 1 for a Furutech power conditioner. I need a conditioner because of my power situation. The Foundation 1 limited my dynamic range so a friend convinced me to plug the amp into the wall. He was right - MUCH better. Then I won (in a silent auction for charity) a Furutech (forgot the model number) and plugged it in.

    :eek:

    I could not believe it! More dynamic range! Clear reproduction, more "real" sounding! The bass is much more well defined! Just shocking....

    Sorry for rambling on!

    :wave:
     
    Gary, Sep 26, 2007
    #31
  7. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    Gary, Sep 26, 2007
    #32
  8. WHitese

    WHitese Senior Member

    Location:
    North Bergen, NJ
    Cool Gary, thanks for the insights....My tannoys are still resting in the wrong coast until my friend who picked them up for me ships em. They are going straight to get a resurround job (and maybe some updating of the xovers). Then I will try them in these cabs:

    [​IMG]
     
    WHitese, Sep 26, 2007
    #33
  9. Gary

    Gary Nauga Gort! Staff

    Location:
    Toronto
    As they are dual concentric speakers, the surround replacement job could be a tricky business. I understand that the horn loaded tweeter (if that's what they are called) has to be shimmed or stabilized. Or something like that. :)

    Make sure your surround guy knows what he is doing! And experience helps, too...

    Just thought I'd mention it.
     
    Gary, Sep 26, 2007
    #34
  10. cwon

    cwon Active Member

    Location:
    Honolulu, Hawaii, USA
    What are those and are those real woofers in them?
     
    cwon, Sep 26, 2007
    #35
  11. WHitese

    WHitese Senior Member

    Location:
    North Bergen, NJ
    The woofers are the tremendously rare and expensive RCA's and they stayed with the previous owner...
     
    WHitese, Sep 26, 2007
    #36
  12. DrJ

    DrJ Senior Member

    Location:
    Davis, CA, USA
    Interesting comments all around.

    My own opinion is that I don't really think the fundamental issues I have with the 15" LSU Monitor Gold Tannoys as main speakers is related to amp synergy. I hear the same fundamental sound whether I run a vintage HK Citation II (a solid state rectified tube amp and possibly the most "modern" sounding vintage tube power amp there was), MC30s, MC60s, or (when I had it) a McIntosh MA-6200 SS amp which again is a lot more "modern" sounding. The Tannoys still sounded like Tannoys - again not necessarily a bad thing at all - but that's my point. They have a very distinct sonic footprint/identity and it isn't a particularly neutral one in my opinion - very vintage "hi fi" thing going.

    I would also suspect cables could make a difference but again not to the point that they fundamentally change the sound of the speaker.

    The bass I find excellent though "slow" as Gary suggests - the lower mids are very, very good but upper mids thin out significantly to me - making trumpets and pianos sound odd - and the highs are a bit metallic. And overall while they are more dynamic than many a speaker, they aren't as dynamic as the best in my opinion.

    Incidentally, I originally and good naturedly "argued"/debated against the idea that the Tannoys had a metallic high end in another thread on the Forums. But, after clearing up some other issues in my system, I am not ashamed to say that I have done an 180 degree about face - I now hear exactly what folks were talking about, and I have to eat a little crow on this point. Here's the thread:

    http://stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=110728&highlight=tannoy+metallic

    SH Forum member "audio" was DEAD ON RIGHT about the subtly metallic character of the highs. I would also say that while the mids are better than many, many speakers, if you compare the upper mids to the kind you get with a good 3-way speaker that has a nice mid driver, there is no comparison - the Tannoys sound thin/weak and it hurts the identity/realism of certain instruments like trumpets and pianos on nice jazz recordings.

    I also can't comment on later Tannoy models like the ones Gary has which may indeed sound different - all my comments focus on the 15" LSU Monitor Golds, in ported original Lancaster enclosures.
     
    DrJ, Sep 29, 2007
    #37
  13. briern

    briern New Member

    Location:
    UK
    Hi there, I have just been browsing your forum about Tannoy golds - does this mean that my PAIR OF TANNOY DUAL CONCENTRIC GOLDS (not sure if they are 12" of 15") that I inheritted from ABBEY ROAD STUDIOS having worked there for 26 years are actually in demand over there in the USA?! Wow, I must dig them out of my loft!!!
     
    briern, May 14, 2008
    #38
  14. alanb

    alanb Senior Member

    Location:
    Bonnie Scotland
    HI and welcome.:wave:

    If your Tannoy's came from Abbey Road they are worth A LOT probably.

    Any gems from Abbey road that you would like to share with us?
     
    alanb, May 14, 2008
    #39
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