The post right above yours seems to explain that. While the peak levels would be the same they run at slightly different speeds. Peak levels can prove a different mastering they but do not help when it comes to speed/pitch/timing, track lengths, etc. Still they provide what I consider valuable data about 99% of the time.
Yeah, that's funny though because I don't hear any speed issues with any of the other tracks on the Japan for US. Just Drowning Man.
The target and Japan for US are both likely Diament's work (the same master) due to them sharing the same peak levels.
Apparently your ears noticed something even if you could not pinpoint it as per the data from S. P. Honeybunch. I still prefer the P35 and it's unique mastering on the rare occasion I ever listen to the material.
I could be wrong but those are from 1983/1984 and are not done by him it is a later US for US mastering from 1986 that was Barry D's. I 'm pretty sure it's been well documented somewhere on this forum
Listening to Two Hearts Beat As One now on the Japan for US 90067-2. Bono's vocal not muffled on this. Has a live in the listening room feel to it. Larry Mullen Jr,'s bass drum is rather plaster shaking. Lots of thumping coming through. His snares are nice,clear & have pretty big punch on Red Light. Trumpet solo on that sounds very good. Only muddy murky sounding track here is Sunday Bloody Sunday,but even that is pretty dynamic in the rhythm section.
I'm not sure if Island released this on CD at the same time as vinyl. I'd bet money that they didn't release it until 1984 or 1985. Discogs.com lists the Sonopress as 1984, the target and regular US for US as 1985, and the P35 as 1986. The Barry Diament master is not well documented at all. Barry never said with certainty which CD has his work. Some forum members have claimed that certain CDs are his work, but he never verified anything with a listening test. Remember that his CDs usually don't have a lot of peaks near 100.
I would guess that the pink columns in Roland's chart attached to post #51 have a greater chance of being Barry's than the Japan for US or target. They remind me more of his style on Led Zeppelin CDs than the Japan for US does. The Japan for US has more treble or air and often sounds a wee bit thinner.
Here's a interesting one: Island Made In USA 90067-2 124619D Mfd. by BMG printed on the CD face 3 90067-2 SRC-16 MATRIX EAC peaks - 89.1/89.1/87.0/85.3/66.5/87.0/85.0/87.0/85.5/70.9 Matches the pink/purple numbers Time: 42.11 (doesn't match pink/purple numbers) Being really familiar with Barry's work, this really does sounds like his, like the other poster said, similar to the Zeppelins. I have an Island Masters IMCD 141, and the MFSL too. I'm not even going to bother doing a shootout because this BMG pressing sounds really nice, even when cranked. Usually the record club pressings are inferior, I guess I lucked out and got a good one. I know the Japan is regarded highly, but I'm actually very satisfied with this mastering. I hope it is in fact Barry D's. It definitely has the "meat." No fatique at all even on New Years Day. Can anyone confirm? By the way I also made the mistake of buying the remaster about 2 years ago, and it's a harsh, abrasive listen.
I would love to compare your copy with the 3 I have (WG Target, P35D and MFSL). I have a strong suspicion that it might indeed be the BD version (and the best).
I was very disappointed with the P35D, especially after preferring the P35D of Joshua Tree to the MFSL edition. But this was loud and headache inducing. Turns out that my WG Target has the same peak numbers as the US 90067-2. It going to come down to the MFSL and that one.
My US PDO Silver #1A1 matches the peaks, EAC Time 42:09 Thinking a year later 32 you probably have it figured out by now
Roland has a Excel sheet breakdown of all the masterings of U2 War on a thread somewhere here. Apparently the Japan mastering and it's clones are the prefered version(s) for War. I'm OK with this version, it's pretty flat. I only like about 4 tracks on it anyway.
I think according to Roland the Japan is the Diament, but I would have to go through the threads. I'm not entirely sure myself. To me this versions sounds fine. It can be cranked and the high end isn't abrasive at all.
I read through some of it, Barry thought maybe his US was re-configured in Japan for it's market, but wasn't sure, But like a couple of his other U2 titles Japan for US his name is listed as the Mastering Engineer (Early Digi's) Did War have a Japan for US issue?
The Japan for US and the German target are the same. But I prefer the Japan for US on unforgiving speakers by a hair for some reason. I also have a US for US that matches the peak levels of the BMG and PDO mentioned above. Also have the MFSL and deluxe remaster. No contest. I prefer the Japan for US and German target over all of em. I can post matrices and peak levels if needed, but yes, there is a chart with all the versions' peak levels on here somewhere.
If you are talking about the P35D then that would be wrong. There is no consensus at least. I hate it, and I'm not alone.
Yes, the P35D was the one I seem to remember from the thread as being preferred. I got my copy of War for 5 bucks at a used record store and I find the sonics to be very well balanced. Yes, I have seen the Japan for US in the used record stores. I passed it up as my copy sounded fine.
We should find that thread. No, there was no consensus that the P35D was preferred. The German target was preferred. And I tell ya, the Japan for US, with the same peak levels is just as good for most of us. Here's the chart with the peak levels: Essential Barry Diament masterings ยป PEAK LEVELS -> U2 / War Japan for US 90067 2 S3E21 Track 1 Peak level 83.7 % Track 2 Peak level 85.1 % Track 3 Peak level 70.4 % Track 4 Peak level 83.4 % Track 5 Peak level 61.9 % Track 6 Peak level 92.8 % Track 7 Peak level 78.8 % Track 8 Peak level 85.3 % Track 9 Peak level 82.9 % Track 10 Peak level 71.7 % No, it's not perfect, but the MFSL is no smoother on my system. Just warmer. That US for US is just not as smooth or detailed. 422 811 1482 09$ S IFPI L009 (stamped into hub: made in USA BY UML IFPI 0399) If you guys like it so much, maybe I should sell mine here.
Correct as with virtually every CD based Album on this forum there is no consensus. IMHO more of chance at winning the power-ball than finding one. People must know the type of sound they prefer then find others here with similar tastes - or even better do the legwork/compares yourself. That method is the only one that will approach 100% accuracy for ones own hearing, just make sure your gear is fully warm first
I have a version that appears to be different than any of the versions on the charts posted by @rjstauber above, based on running time. IIRC, it was purchased (by me) in the 80s in the U.S., it has the Island 90067-2 catalog #, matrix is 90067-2-V4E 15T, manufactured by JVC Disc America Co. ("Made in U.S.A."), running time 42:21, spine is black with white lettering, has the "U2 are from Ireland..." liner notes on back cover of case. It sounds good. Mastering seems the same as that posted here on DR Database, as the DR, Peak and RMS numbers are identical: Album details - Dynamic Range Database . Don't have foobar so can't compare peak levels to the charts. Is this the same mastering as any of the ones already compiled here?
"War" has two different West German target masterings?! That is what I found today. I just received a "War" target, and either it has been faked/counterfeited or it appears to be a variant that I have not seen documented. 7567 90067-2 2893 213 03 BR matrix MADE IN WEST GERMANY BY POLYGRAM on disc circumference no outer mirror band MADE IN W. GERMANY BY PDO in disc center Peak levels, Dynamic Range figures, and total time (42:08) match not those of the expected West German target but rather those of the West Germany/US PDO 90067-2 non target, which is the pink mastering on the table and is the reported Diament mastering. 01 89.1 02 89.1 03 87.0 04 85.3 05 66.5 06 87.0 07 85.0 08 87.0 09 85.5 10 70.9 DR12 -1.00 dB -15.77 dB 4:40 01-Sunday Bloody Sunday DR13 -1.00 dB -17.10 dB 3:11 02-Seconds DR13 -1.20 dB -15.61 dB 5:36 03-New Year's Day DR14 -1.38 dB -16.42 dB 4:47 04-Like A Song... DR11 -3.54 dB -17.49 dB 4:15 05-Drowning Man DR13 -1.20 dB -16.83 dB 3:41 06-The Refugee DR13 -1.41 dB -16.85 dB 4:03 07-Two Hearts Beat As One DR14 -1.20 dB -18.41 dB 3:46 08-Red Light DR12 -1.36 dB -16.75 dB 5:34 09-Surrender DR11 -2.98 dB -16.26 dB 2:36 10-"40" My supposition, as this is an 03 matrix, is that some of the later/last pressed "War" targets were switched over to the Diament mastering. Per Occam's razor, that would be the simplest explanation here. And maybe this already is a known variant, though I find mentions of only one target mastering. So, I could use some expert analysis here, folks. Thanks... AJ
I'm certain there's a chart comparing the peak levels of several pressings somewhere around here. But you're finding is probably not on it. Good spot! I have the Japan for US JVC pressing matrix: 90067 2 S3E21 My German target: matrix: 7567 90067-2 2893 213 01 83.7 % 85.1 % 70.4 % 83.4 % 61.9 % 92.8 % 78.8 % 85.3 % 82.9 % 71.7 % There were errors I slightly prefer the Japan for US over the target - even though the peak levels match - and the MFSL doesn't have the same detail to my ears, on my speakers. The Japan had slightly more detail and smoothness. There were errors (slight) ripping the target, so maybe that's why the Japan sounds slightly better?
Have you directly checked the peak levels of your Japan for US? Or are you going off just the levels posted in the chart? The reason I ask is that I think we may have both target and Diament masterings among the Japan for US discs, too. That also could help explain why some do and some do not hear differences between the target and the Japan for US. AJ
