So I've had these two copies on hand now for a few weeks (the two mentioned in the above quote), and just received the 2012 MOV remastered version, brand new. First off, the comparison between the US Decca W1/W2 and the UK A1/A1 is night and day, and something I didn't expect. The US Decca blew away the UK version by a mile. I would describe it as the difference between getting flicked on the ear vs getting punched in the gut. The US Decca has much more punch, more balls, great high end, and really nice clarity. It made me realize that this album really was Keith Moon's Opus on drums, as I could feel not only the raw power of his playing, but the creativeness came through in ways the other versions just don't convey. The UK version is missing all of that - almost like a blanket is over the speakers when I play it. Mind you both are in NM condition, and I played both on the exact same system. If in fact these two versions were cut from the same/similar lacquer (are they?), then the only thing I can think of is that it comes down to quality of the vinyl. The US Decca is much heavier and thicker than the UK version. Does that make sense? Can the vinyl alone affect the sound truly that much?? Now onto my thoughts on the 2012 MOV remaster: I think this is a different beast altogether. First, the pros I heard - It's definitely the most articulate of the three, pushes the vocals forward, and wider soundstage than the other two. The one main con I would say is that it is just a hair more neutered when it comes to punch than the US Decca version. Not much mind you, but enough to notice. The only other small nit I would say is that Roger's scream at the end of Won't Get Fooled Again gets a little crispy, meaning some component got clipped, and from what it sounds like to me, it's a solid state component. Having said that, I think this version is neck and neck with the US Decca. Which I listen to will just depend on what I'm feeling like that day. I probably won't listen much to the UK version. All of the above is subjective and in my humble opinion, of course
If it's from the 1995 CD, 5 tracks are remixed: Baba, Love Ain't For Keeping, My Wife, Going Mobile, and Behind Blue Eyes. The remaining songs have some noise reduction.
It's the same "master" as what the 1995 CD was made from. The remix wasn't done on analog tape was it? So just over half of the album is remixed. I should have been more specific.
Not to my knowledge. All of the remixes from that era have either been omitted from HD downloads or have been upsampled from 44.1kHz.
So this makes sense, that some songs are remixed. I could swear Love Ain't For Keeping sounds like a different song entirely to me (not good or bad, just different), the intro to Baba O'Reilly actually appears to be a little longer, and there definitely was some treatment applied to the harmonies/backup vocals on Behind Blue Eyes. As I have mixed and mastered music before, I was scratching my head as to how straight up mastering could have applied these more invasive changes to the material. I know a lot can be done with frequency bands, compression, imaging, etc, but if this was solely a mastering job it surely would count as a masterclass on how to be surgical! As far as the HD downloads go, this is an ongoing question in my mind as to whether any album older than, say ~2010, is truly hi-res at 96/24 or 172/24 from Qobuz or Tidal in FLAC (or even Amazon, which is suspect on a whole other level!), unless they actually went back to the master tapes and brought it into the digital realm at those rates. I do think Neil Young did this, and I have a Hi-Res FLAC of Harvest that sounds great, but the rest I would have to think are upsampled, and if that's the case, then what's the point? And given stories I've heard about the current condition of Who's Next's master tapes, I'm not sure anything pulled off of them at this point would be an improvement over some of the better past copies. I currently have this album on CD (and ripped to my NAS in AIFF & FLAC), and about 5 versions on vinyl, which I'll probably sell one, frame the other and put in my studio, and keep the other 3 for listening.
What stories? They are in great shape. Some "HD" content is upsampled, but I don't think it's correct to say "most". Now, whether that actually makes a difference or not...that's another discussion.
I guess I've heard that the Who's Next master tapes haven't aged well, but this is so far removed from anyone who has actually handled them, or is holding them right now . Do you have insight or a first hand account of their condition? And I guess it's fair to say "some" as opposed to "most" HD content is upsampled, but this is part of my confusion. As a listener, and someone who will peruse Qobuz for example and find albums with the hi-res rates advertised, how am I to know from one album to the next whether it's been upsampled, natively recorded in those rates, or they've pulled from the original masters directly into those rates? Can I hear the difference between something that's upsampled from a lower rate or natively recorded in that higher rate? I think it depends on the material and the process used to be honest. I have heard some upsampled material that I didn't think sounded as good (as good = less depth and soundstage) as original copies at lower rates. Other upsampled material I've heard I didn't think it mattered. Admittedly, at this point we're splitting hairs, so I guess my larger point is, as the streaming industry moves towards ubiquitous hi-res content eventually, as a consumer I'd like to easily know what I'm buying and listening to. An "Upsampled" or "Native Hi-Res" label would be nice.
Here’s my pet theory. None of them sound all that good to me I own or have owned at one time or another: US Decca - Doug Sax US Decca - anonymous UK Track half Doug Sax/half anonymous German Polydor - early pressing UK Track - Bilbo UK Track - Bilbo/half anonymous UK Track- 1980 or so UK Polydor - 1983 MCA Heavy Vinyl LP - Kevin Gray 3 LP set - Universal Classic Records LP - Chris Bellman Universal reissue - Ron McMaster cut Universal reissue - Miles Showell cut (not half speed) 2023 Half Speed - Showell I’m resigned to the fact that there’s not going to be the ultimate version. Perhaps the Hoffman CD. Dunno
It also has occurred to me over the years that this could just have been a poorly recorded and mixed album in the studio? Sacrilege I know, but compared to many other recordings, whilst I do hear some versions that are better than others, it's just lacking. It's a shame as it was such a phenomenal album from the actually music pov.
Then I guess maybe there's something missing or lacking in most of the reproductions I've heard over the years. Like I said in a post above, the US Decca W1/W2 is probably the best sounding I've ever heard this album. Maybe, for me, on my system, to my ears, that's the holy grail?
