The Who Album-By-Album (& Single-By-Single) Thread

He didn't play on the Fleur de Lys cover either, though he did produce it. The guitarist was Phil Sawyer. If Page had played on half the tracks people claim he did, he would have worn his fingers through to bare bone some time around 1966.

 

"Zoot Suit" was actually the original A-side, and "I'm the Face" was the B, though these got swapped in reissues, apparently at the Who's preference. I think the mono versions on the one-CD Quadrophenia film soundtrack from Polydor U.S. are the original single mixes.

 

Fwiw, and now beating a dead horse, in an October 2007 interview with Shel Talmy, conducted on thewhoforum.com (not the official site)...

Tehark: There's been some dispute about "I Can't Explain," since you brought in Jimmy Page to contribute guitar to it and the B-side "Bald Headed Woman." In the liner notes to the My Generation Deluxe release, Andy Neill writes that according to you, Page was only there to play additional rhythm. Is that true? Whatever his contribution, did Page end up on the final mix?

Shel: True, rhythm only, and only on Bald-headed Woman.

 

Have you heard that Universal Japan mono My Generation (UICY-6988)? I'd say it's a much better source for the stuff from this period, "Anyway" included, than either version of Who's Better, Who's Best. For the mono mixes, it's pretty much all that you need. (Though Steve's Meaty Beaty sounds almost as clean for most of the tracks in common, and the EQ is better, so it's best to have that one around too.)

I've never noticed any mix difference in "Daddy Rolling Stone," but my needledrop of the original single is in hideous quality, and I can't claim I've ever played it enough to become really familiar with it.

 

"Shel: True, rhythm only, and only on Bald-headed Woman"

Right from the horses mouth.

Thanks for posting.

 

Oddly enough in the booklet for the cd I posted it says.

"As a rhythm guitarist , he contributed chunky, pre-metal power chords to songs like The Who's "I Cant' Explain and the Kinks "AdAAOTN"

It say he sessioned with Les Fleurs De Lys, whatever that means.

Anyway, the point being that any songs that Jimmy actually sessioned on would help zero in on his sound.

But I'll take the word of "Talmy" as stated above in regards to "ICE". Yeah, the dude is old and his memory could be fogged. Not to mention litigation is perpetually tied up in regarding those tapes.....

 

Yes, and for years it was said Page was the soloist on "You Really Got Me," which has been thoroughly discredited by Ray Davies himself (not always one to say kind things about his brother Dave).

Ray does state that Page plays rhythm guitar on "You Really Got Me." I have never heard it said that he had anything at all to do with "All Day and All of the Night."

I'd like to know who wrote the above, and what his/her credentials are, before I take it as accurate.

 

No problem, fwiw I think the remixed 'stereo' version of ICE on MGD, offers perhaps an even clearer sonic picture than any other, anyway, I think I'm going to step out of this thread as The Who, then, and what's left of them, and it, now, I'm too passionate about, and means too much to me, plus I've written everything about this current subject in previous posts that I need to, and I just want to enjoy what the band did then, and what's left of them now, and the future, without having to try to explain or write anything at all. I'll see how long I can get out and stay out, ...

 

No, he doesn't.

No one present remembers the session rhythm guitarist's full name, and Ray and others have given him different first names at different times. But it wasn't Jimmy Page, who says that he didn't play on "You Really Got Me."

Page took credit for rhythm guitar there in his 1977 Trouser Press interview.

This was denied by Ray, in the Creem interview I linked to above:

As for "I Can't Explain," a few more relevant comments:

And from an old Shel Talmy Usenet comment:

Note that this disagrees with Talmy's claim elsewhere that Page played on "Bald-Headed Woman." I wouldn't take Talmy's word as gospel on any of these sessions; that's not the only time he's contradicted himself. In the face of Townshend and Page's claims that Page did play rhythm, I'm willing to believe it. But there's no evidence in the least that he played lead.

 

That exactly why I posted youtube clips of the current band. To try and appreciate whats left of them, rather than go over the past again and again. You see, I'm really not that rude and snipping person in my heart. Just passionate about The Who as I lived thru much of it.

 

I will scan the booklet and post it later today, it makes for an interesting read. It was written by Dawn Eden with thanks to the assistance of a number of people.

 

Who the F%& Are You?

Not sure how I missed this thread so far, but I'm glad to see it happening... assuming it will still go forth...

Thanks for starting it Driver 8, The Who were my first love and Tommy through Quad will be my fave era to cover...

I see I'm not too far behind, still in early singles, good, but I see some bad mojo has already gone down, not good. Not read the 'theory' in dispute, but I must say that saying that the OP's theory is 'pathetic" seems VERY bad form to me, no matter your love and knowledge of the Who nor how bad a theory might be--again, I have not read it yet...

Can we be passionate in our love the the Who and their music without quickly devolving into such bickering? We all need to have thick skins around here, but such rudeness is not really necessary is it... (again, I've only skimmed the thread, so if this has already been resolved amicably and all have moved on, apologives...)

As for The Who, been a huge fan ever since I bought Meat, Beaty, Big, and Bouncy and Live at Leeds in 1980, age 15, my very first record purchases... Townshend's songwriting got me though those tough teen years and I still adore him--most recently on the excellent In The Attic DVD/ Cd combo...

Every one of those early singles, as heard on Meaty, is near and dear to my heart. Back in 1980 only about half of Meaty really moved me and sunk in, now, I realize it is all bloody brilliant, every track--read that book wholly devoted to it, and Townshend's own review of it... What a great series of Who singles...


Love the Who, and look forward to this thread... please keep it going Driver 8, and please be nice, you know Who fan...


cheers,

 

This'll be my last post on the issue, you all can take it from here. Fwiw I come to this discussion with three decades of studio experience. I was mentored by Paul A. Rothchild, so I have a bit on insight into the thinking of a strong-willed producer-type.

#1 Absolute Beginners is a fabulous rock movie, head and shoulders above your standard rock flick. A fantasy flick, filled with truisms around the edges. If you want to dismiss it as your average clueless rock flick, we can agree to disagree.

#2 Pete played the entire track first, of course, with band. Then someone overdubbed a fat rhythm chop over the intros, right from the start, and the verses too. Laid out for the solo. Could've been Pete, could've been a session guy.

#3 Of COURSE it's possible to play 2 different guitars, match the attack and have them sound like one. It happens all the time, I've done it myself. But it's not the same tone here, it's different, adding fatness. Which is why that particular rhythm guitar sounds different from every other rhy guitar sound on other early Who records.

#4 As far as Talmy's statement, let's consider the politics:

a) I'm sure we're all aware that Townshend has an ego the size of... well you know. ICE being such a landmark track, I can imagine his not being eager to admit being a puppet at his own session. (And as I said, he might not know! I've replaced guitars myself, without the band member's knowledge, many times.) "Bald Headed Woman" though, who cares who played on that!

b) Talmy held possession of these session tapes for years, holding out for a good price. There's certainly an incentive there to not "pi** off Pete" by telling tales out of school.

One other thing. Without naming names, these old guys and their memories... well let's leave it at that!

In closing, here's my position: I'm quite certain there are two guitars on that part. I have no idea who played the second guitar, but having a session guy jump in and add needed tweaks to a young band's debut single was certainly common practice. Still is.

See ya -

 

I'm The Face Baby...

It seems to me that there is a really good, postive way to approach this minute point in this epic band's history and a not so good example, both above.

We all love the Who to varying degrees, and our knowledge of the band and their every musical fart varies as well, but cannot we all get along here, based on this common love of The Who?

I don't see how your comments, Reb, about pathetic theories and I'm rude and don't need to apologive furthers the disccussion or the thread, but rather makes, me for one, feel like you are hijacking the OP's thread based on your "superiour knowledge", which, IIRC, aint too cool...

I'd think we could move one, and try to behave in a matter befitting Moon the Loon, ok, maybe not the best example... But just cause the band bloodied each other's noses doesn't mean we should....

cheers,

 

Well I didn't approach my post with any rudeness intended at all! If any of it came off that way, I certainly apologize. But there were some points to clarify. Movin on then -

 

Townshend said

Townshend said he played it. He said Page played rhythm on the session.
I mean he ought to know

Of course I am referring to your discussion about the guitars on
I can't Explain.

 

I Can't See Your Smile and Smiles and Smiles....

No, No, No, you misunderstood me--easy to do... ) I was quoting your post as an excellent example of debating the point without rude jabs and arrogance, whereas the other poster was doing both...

Your post was a delightful read, sorry you misunderstood... I can see both sides in this disagreement and just think it is silly that it has caused a ruckas/rift so early on in what ought to be a Happy Jack, joint labour of love of the Who....


cheers,

 

But how great is "Anyway Anyhow Anywhere"! A rare instance where Roger got a chance at writing lyrics. "I can do anything" indeed.

 

Thanks for all the positive feedback on my posts. Although The Who are my favourite band, I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile Who-expert, as my collection really is quite modest, and most of my Who knowledge comes from this forum. I just happen to never tire of them, so I don't mind getting an obsessive compulsory disorder diagnosis over analysing different versions, and thought it would be a good idea to collect what is considered "forum favourites" at the moment in this thread, and throwing in some of my own observations here and there. Much of this is old news to most of you. All credit should go to the billions of contributors we have here on sh.tv.

We got off to a pretty rough start here, and it feels really bad. I too considered pulling out, but I contacted Driver 8 (our host), and he understandably needs some time, so let's try to carry on in the meantime. His idea was to start with the "My Generation" 45 this Monday, and the album mid-week, so how about we just start with the "My Generation" 45 tomorrow and the album on Monday? I can write a quick piece like I did with ICA and AAA. What do you think?

 

Yes! Let's move on.

 

Yep,

Fantastic song. I like the version on the BBC comp best.

 

I apologize to Driver 8 and too anyone else that dislikes my demeanor. I tried to set a different tone with my recent posts but some late comers felt they needed to pile on. Therefore, I'll just watch from a distance.

 

Whatever works for you brother, I got here when I did, read what I read, and felt the need to try to say something, maybe without as much tact as I should have... I apologive to you too, and hope that your passion and enthusasum for The Who will still be shared herein quite regularly and often, you obviously know much and love much The Who, and that is a great thing, the common bond which draws us in here (and occasionally divides us...)

I for one have too oft come off hostile and rude, and I regret many a post, even some from this morning, but live and learn, its al good, and...

But like the man said, lets move on, shall we..

cheers,

 

Figures- now you guys chose to move on right as I feel like offering my useless opinion. And that is, Pete was such a strong-willed guy back in those days, even if Talmy *had* overdubbed Page or another guitarist over his track, surely Pete would have noticed eventually when he heard it. After all, if it would be so close to Pete's sound without him noticing, why even bother?

My gut feeling is that if Pete had an idea that someone else played on his band's track without his ok, there would be a well known story about him smashing his guitar over the producer's head. I don't think he would have been very tolerant of such games, IMO.

 

That would be a great loss, and the worst thing that could happen to this thread is people pulling out. We're all basically on the same side here, and it takes plenty of diversity to make this worthwhile!