The Grateful Dead's "Wall of Sound".*

yea but it wasn't loud enough.

 

I attended three WOS shows. None were remarkable. The band seemed distracted, and two of the shows were outdoors. The sound system seemed underpowered outdoors. Indoors, it tended to beam instruments rather than present a pleasing mix.

 

Interesting perspective. Reality versus the legend???

 

maybe things got better as it went along. I also saw 3 shows, all east coast, including one indoors and was pretty impressed with the sound.

 

The article barely mentions John Curl.

 

I asked him a question once and he did not respond. I am guessing he did not want to be interviewed. I would have to brush up, but he built a lot of the electronics right, pre-amps, crossovers? I guess you get into deep geek land at that level, but yes given what he went on to do...

 

That reminds me, I have wanted get people’s thoughts on building on paper the home version of the WOS. This place seems as good as any, so:

NAGRA IV-S Reel-to-Reel
Levinson JC-2 Straightline Preamp
McIntosh MC2300 Amp
JBL Speakers

I think I am in the ballpark right? What would you guys use?

 

John Curl is responsible for the circuit layout/electronic design of the Wall of Sound, had a big hand in designing gear used in the recordings of the Dead, was good friends with Bear.

 

Can you point me to or remember what gear regarding the recordings? I am trying to learn more about how they split mic feeds for various boards and recorders if you know of any good sources. Thanks,

 

Who the hell moved my original post from the Music Corner today?

 

The Gorts moved it because there already was one going, and that one also was moved to the hardware section which is really what this is about. I hope you are not angry, although I am saying that to your avatar and it looks pretty angry. Nice article thanks for sharing.

 

fishcane found this and posted it on the Fare Thee Well Show #5 thread but I think it belongs here as well.

Bear made the show.

 

I was going to post some of my photos and a brief story of the Chicago load-in/set-up but where the heck would they move that...?
I'll post it elsewhere.

 

No its perfect for here, well there may be conflicting reader opinions on that as some people want to stick to the thread topic pretty literally, others such as myself roll with it more and this is in the same ballpark so fine by me; but things mostly get moved by Gorts if they are threads in the wrong place not posts in the wrong place; or newly started threads for something where an existing thread is already available. You could put them in the Fare Thee Well thread here, I just think if you start your own thread it should be in the Hardware forum because it is about that more than discussing the music. Just my opinion of what they tend to do on these matters. I can't wait to see them so please put them somewhere!

On second thought more Deadheads are probably currently on the Fare Thee Well thread.

 

If you posted that on another site would you please provide us with a link to it here? I would really like to see that. Thanks

 

You "could" do something similar today by having multiple line arrays. Dave Rat did this for RHCP http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/print/the_wall_of_sound_to_now_a_pa_evolution_odyssey

The “Wall Of Sound” To Now - A PA Evolution Odyssey


August 22, 2012, by Dave Rat


Back in 1974, the Grateful Dead put together what was easily the most unique, experimental and perhaps complex sound system ever configured for live sound reinforcement in that era.

This system was named the “Wall of Sound” and jt was a complete divergence from conventional sound reinforcement thinking.

There were two key concepts combined together resulting in a very interesting outcome:

1) Because PA systems of the day were stacked on either side of the stage and often blocked audience sight lines, they designed a sound system that was placed behind the band and acted as both the PA system, their instrument amps and as their monitor system (way for the band to hear themselves).

2) They found that when all the various instruments and vocals were mixed together into the PA speakers the sound was less clear than when each instrument was amplified separately.

To deal with this, they actually designed and used a separate sound system for each instrument and another sound system for the vocals totaling six PA systems!

While a giant step in forward thinking was made, it was not without issues. Having the sound system directly behind that band meant the speakers are pointed straight into the microphones.

Also, the sheer complexity and magnitude of the setup greatly limited the venues that it could be implemented and the fact that the sound system became the entire stage backdrop relegated it to become a niche concept that possibly could only be used by its creators and equally unique Grateful Dead.


Wall of Sound above, and below, the Stones PA behind the scrims (click to enlarge)
And as you can see in the top photo at right, it did not make for the cleanest stage set, while to provide some contrast, the photo below at right is a cool old picture of The Rolling Stones stage setup with the PA located behind the lips scrim.

Even with it’s awkwardness, the concept of the Wall of Sound was so intriguing that I had to try it and understand it.

I finally got that opportunity in 1986 while touring with Black Flag when, after some persuading, we talked the band into letting us set up the Rat PA in a mini Wall of Sound configuration.

Since I had designed and Rat Sound had built Black Flag’s guitar and bass cabinets exactly the same dimensions as the Rat PA, the system fit together really well. (That system is pictured directly below.)


Rat Sound’s Black Flag PA (click to enlarge)
On the upside the system was incredibly clear sounding while on the downside, it sounded a bit distant and the sound bleeding into the mics was cumbersome enough not to continue with that setup.

The most important thing is that I learned enough to set my sights on someday resolving the issues.

Twenty years later, through a roundabout way I have come full circle. My testing in designing the MicroWedge Series clarified my understanding and goals.

The evolution of sound systems from giant globs of speakers to finesse full narrow line-arrays created the opportunity to cover large venues with multiple systems utilizing minimal space.

The entire Wall of Sound was 26,000 watts, current systems run at ten times that power and are a fraction of the size.

Plus we now have the capability of effectively predicting the sonic coverage in a venue based on room dimensions.

What this means is that with today’s sound system technology, multiple sound systems can be hung conventionally to either side of the band rather than stacked behind them without blocking sight lines.

This creates an inconspicuous yet effective implementation of the concept. (The photo below shows the “dual-PA” system approach that Rat Sound has developed for The Red Hot Chili Peppers.)

Initially I considered proposing a triple system rather than the dual system the Peppers are currently touring with.


The PA for the Red Hot Chili Peppers tour a couple/few years ago, with dual line arrays flown to each side of the stage (click to enlarge)
The triple would have been three separate stereo sound systems, one for guitar, one for bass and one for vocals with drums interspersed into the three.

To test the concept, I purchased three small home hi-fi systems and roadie Ethan and I built a small simulator in my living room.

With a Pro Tools system and live Peppers multi track recordings from last tour, I was able to try out different combinations and test the effectiveness of the setup.

I found that the most noticeable improvement occurred when going from one system to two and adding the third was more subtle.

So here we are today, and I smile as long ago dreams have become real.

A refined and usable version of what the Grateful Dead had started, a grand scale application of what I learned from so many years.



Dave Rat is the co-founder and owner of Rat Sound, a leading sound reinforcement company based in California.

 

Here is a tidbit from JBL’s perspective regarding how they surpassed Altec in the professional market in the 70’s. You navigate at the top: Beginnings – 1960’s – 1970’s

http://www.audioheritage.org/html/history/jbl-pro/jbl-pro.htm

 

This is very interesting. Thanks posters!

 

Here is a schematic of the '82 Oakland rig. Good article here with Healy discussing the early '80 gear which is an overlooked period in the PA. Scroll to the second article.

 

American Radio History Magazine delivers again. A fascinating look at the Radio City ’80 shows starting page 48 here.

 

Owsley.....

 

I ran across this 1986 article on the Ultra Sound PA starting page 38 http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Recording-Engineer/80s/Recording-1986-02.pdf

Here is Rick Turner commenting on a Bose forum no less getting into a little bit of the physics goal.
http://bose.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1506041054/m/5981040122

Here is some stuff on Phil's quad bass including Rick Turner and Phil comments at the bottom
http://www.ricksuchow.com/press-group-167.html

 

There were remnants of that set up at Front Street studios in the late 80's. Might still be, somewhere.

The cabs were Meyer Sound - a notable manufacturer of monitoring equipment. A friend of mine worked there in the 90's, and got a deal on a pair of HD-1's. Neither of us ever really loved them. Very clean, and measured well at close proximity, but they didn't have a lot in the way of imaging or fine detail. They were dark and harsh, if impressively extended, bass-wise, for their size. I never loved them.

 

I saw the WOS in Boulder in 72 or 73. The thing I remember were the beautiful tie-died grill covers. Would love to see a picture of that. The sound was really good as I remember.

 

If you remember, you weren't there.