The Concert Sinatra on Reprise from 1963 (including discussion of remixed Concord CD release)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by thomh, Jan 28, 2003.

  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

  2. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    There is no way in holy heck this album was recorded with 24 RCA 44BX microphones! For one thing, if it were, it would sound nothing like it does. For another thing:
     

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  3. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Busted!! They obviously never thought that they'd have to contend with the fact-checking, detective prowess of one Matthew Lutthans!
     
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  4. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il

    Me too. I suspect that this will remain my go-to stereo version of the LP even after the Concord release. But I'm keeping an open mind.
     
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  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I've been known to need my own fact-checking on this stuff! (MMM keeps me on the straight and narrow.)

    Matt
     
  6. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    I had mentioned in some thread somewhere that I like the mono because it "brings it down to size" somewhat. It is much-less a big, bombastic spread out showcase coming from the center of it all.
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    This may be public knowledge, but this is the first I've heard of it. Apparently part of this album inspired....The Fifth Dimension????? ("Don Costa" must have been proud....)

    http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb06/articles/classictracks.htm
     
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  8. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

  9. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
  10. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    I always wondered why the "Aquarius" intro was so similar but never gave it much more than a quick thought. Now I know...thanks! And we all know it was arranged by Nelson, not Don Costa. :shh:
     
  11. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Yeah, I thought that was kinda funny myself.

    By the way, does anybody know the actual release date for the original LP? Early July, 1963??? Late June? I found a couple of brief mentions in Billboard Magazine in their July issues.

    Matt
     
  12. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Mid June, 1963. See this article in the June 8th issue of Billboard:
    It hit the Mono LP chart in the week ending June 22, 1963, and lasted 35 weeks, peaking at #6.
     
  13. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    Press Release

    fs-500-the-concert-sinatra-2012.jpg

    CONCORD MUSIC GROUP APPLIES STATE-OF-THE-ART
    21st-CENTURY TECHNOLOGY TO EARLY 1960S RECORDINGS
    FOR REISSUE OF THE CONCERT SINATRA

    ORIGINAL MASTERS REMASTERED FOR
    THE FIRST TIME IN NEARLY 50 YEARS

    Remixed recording recaptures Sinatra's timeless voice in
    a set of classic Broadway tunes arranged by Nelson Riddle.

    Release date: January 17, 2012

    LOS ANGELES, Calif. — Concord Records has seamlessly taken existing multi-channel recordings from the early 1960s and applied state-of-the-art, 21st-century digital technology for the reissue of The Concert Sinatra, one of the most technically ambitious and musically innovative recordings of Frank Sinatra’s career. Under license from Frank Sinatra Enterprises (FSE), the album is set for release on January 17, 2012.

    This reissue represents a perfect marriage of technological and artistic innovation by harnessing the combined brilliance of Sinatra’s timeless voice, Nelson Riddle’s legendary arrangements, and some of the finest songs to emerge from the Broadway tradition. It all comes together via a recording process that was well ahead of its time in the 1960s, and has been further enhanced by modern-day digital remastering technology.

    When The Concert Sinatra was recorded in February 1963, multi-track master tape machines were not yet a reality in the recording studio. In order to facilitate the sound mixing advantage of multiple channels of audio, The Concert Sinatra was recorded on a motion picture scoring stage with the use of multiple synchronized recording machines that employed 35mm magnetic film. This master recording has not been used in any re-release of The Concert Sinatra since the original sound mix was prepared nearly 50 years ago.

    Producers located the original film canisters where the masters had been stored for nearly a half-century. Despite considerable degradation over time, a team of engineering experts, led by Frank Sinatra, Jr., used contemporary digital recording technology delivered a completely new sound mix for the 2012 re-release.

    “What is the difference between performing a show ballad on the Broadway stage and performing it in a concert auditorium? Considerable. No better illustration could be found than this album,” according to the late Raymond V. Pepe, president of the Institute of High Fidelity who wrote a side note to the 1963 release of The Concert Sinatra. “The voice of Frank Sinatra, the arrangements of Nelson Riddle, the selection of material — all these we think we know. Even the combination of these elements contains no surprises. Or so we think. And then we listen and we hear a new Sinatra, set to some of the purest arrangements we have ever heard. And suddenly several well-known songs become not so well known at all.”

    Frank Sinatra Jr., an accomplished singer and songwriter in his own right — and the conductor and musical director for his father in the later years of his career — contributes new liner notes and a personal perspective to the reissue of The Concert Sinatra. “If you have had this magnificent album in the past,” writes the younger Sinatra, “and compare the orchestral content of previous releases to this new rendering, you will undoubtedly notice the amount of music, originally recorded on the master film that was never present before. Listening to other parts of Nelson Riddle’s classic orchestrations, never before heard on record, was indeed an experience for me.”

    TRACK LIST
    I Have Dreamed
    MY Heart Stood Still
    Lost in the Stars
    Ol’ Man River
    You’ll Never Walk Alone
    Bewitched
    This Nearly Was Mine
    Soliloquy

    BONUS TRACKS (not on original LP):
    California
    America, The Beautiful

    * * *

    Frank Sinatra Enterprises (FSE)
    Frank Sinatra Enterprises (FSE) is a joint venture between the Sinatra family and Warner Music Group (NYSE: WMG). FSE owns Sinatra’s recordings from the Reprise era as well as a treasure trove of films, television specials and unreleased footage, photos and audio recordings, which collectively represent one of the foremost bodies of artistic work of the modern era. FSE also owns and manages Sinatra’s name and likeness rights and represents the artist’s rights to the Columbia and Capitol catalogues. FSE evaluates innovative new product and venture opportunities with respect to the legendary entertainer’s name and likeness, as well as Sinatra's audio and visual recordings.
     
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  14. apileocole

    apileocole Lush Life Gort

    Not the best written of press releases and very short on detail, but it certainly expresses a commitment to the project by Frank Jr. and Concord to produce something that we may find exciting. Happily, I've moved from completely skeptical to looking forwards to hearing their efforts. :thumbsup:

    Thank you for posting this here, Bob.
     
  15. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    Well, we shall see. Thanks as always, Bob. If it is that good and is a successful redeux then the video that was taken of the remastering process may just make for some interesting viewing.
     
  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Wasn't "You Brought a New Kind of Love to Me" recorded at the same sessions? I wonder why it was not included, remixed from the mag film. (It's an excellent performance, IMO.)

    Matt
     
  17. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    True...but that would be one of those "and more..." add ons that does not go along with the rest of the material. I'm happy it's not there.
     
  18. andy75

    andy75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    I'm looking forward to this re-release aswell... I am not too happy about how the latest CD sounds. Never heard any vinyl of this but I would love to hear the mono edition someday.
     
  19. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I've never heard the mono LP either, but wouldn't it have just been derived from the three-track mixdowns of the mag film multitracks? I.e., unlike the Reprise studio recordings of the day (e.g. at United Recording), I assume there wouldn't have been a dedicated real-time mono mix of these Goldwyn sound stage sessions.

    What advantage would there be to a mono version, other than to emphasize the shortcomings of the stereo mix? Wouldn't a fold-down of the stereo achieve the same result?
     
  20. andy75

    andy75 Forum Resident

    Location:
    Sweden
    Maybe your right about the mono... I just don't like the latest stereo CD that I've got of this title that's all! I'm hoping this forthcoming Concord release will sound fine compared to what we've got on Compact Disc! It's not the best, like Nancy S says, but surely one of the very best... :righton:

    I think I've read some good comments about the mono edition, but I know you're an expert on Frank Sinatra, so maybe I'm confusing things.
     
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I've never actually compared them (I've only had the mono for a short time), but I assume they are both derived from the three-track....but I may be wrong.

    The track layout, according to info an old post by Larry Walsh: one 3-track 35mm machine was used for the strings, and another 3-track 35mm machine for the rest of the orchestra. A third 3-track 35mm machine contained a guide track (probably a rough mix of the six orchestral channels) and the FS vocal track. (Apparently the third track on that machine went unused.) This results in a total of 7 discrete tracks. My guess? That orchestral track that shared a reel with the FS vocal was there for playback purposes at the session, but maybe not. There had to be someway to easily playback a rough mix for reference during the sessions, no? So, it was either this, or they had a regular tape machine running at the same time, which I doubt.

    I suppose it's possible that the mono mix was made from just that single reel, but again, I doubt it.

    Matt
     
  22. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    I'm no expert on the mono issue of this LP (and most other Reprise albums), because in 1963, I was buying only stereo records when there was a choice. :)

    I wasn't questioning the validity of mono here, just wondering how it could be much different than a stereo fold-down, given the recording situation. I welcome any and all informed answers.
     
  23. Bob F

    Bob F Senior Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts USA
    BTW, I had posted Larry Walsh's description of the 35mm track layout in [post=6935940]the earlier thread[/post]. Here it is again:

    Which reminds me: Let's hope that "SHE's a fool" on this new Concord release! :D
     
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  24. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    And a whole lot more "air", too!
     
  25. MMM

    MMM Forum Hall Of Fame

    Location:
    Lodi, New Jersey
    I don't hear this the way you seem to be, Matt.

    Re the image shift you note, I don't hear it shifting. What I hear is either the flute soloist either backing off the mic after the 5th run, or the mic being turned down, or that track of the 35mm (if that flute is on its own track) being turned down there. Notice the flute is pretty close to the mic during the solo, but after that when the flute is heard again on the left, it not only softer/lower but also more of a piece with the rest of the group.

    Re the sound of Frank's voice changing, how sensitive is that mic to someone closing in on it? Also, off hand I remember this song being the first recorded for the album. Perhaps they didn't have everything setup right with the electronics? The portions that don't sound as good - like the "big stars" line - sound like they didn't have a limiter on Frank or something down the line dialed in as well as it could have been.
     

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