THE BEATLES "Please Please Me" original mono? Also MMT German pressing info

For those keeping score, again from the Mark Lewisohn book.

Monday 25 February 1963
Studio One (control room only)
P: George Martin E: Norman Smith 2E: A.B. Lincoln

Mono mixing:
Anna (Go To Him) - take 3
Boys - take 1
Chains - take 1
Misery - take 16
Do You Want To Know A Secret - take 8
There's A Place - take 13
Seventeen (working title of I Saw Her Standing There) - from edit of takes 9 and 12
Twist And Shout - take 1
A Taste Of Honey - take 7
Ask Me Why - take 6
Baby It's You - take 5

Stereo mixing
Anna (Go To Him) - take 3
Boys - take 1
Chains - take 1
Misery - take 16
Do You Want To Know A Secret - take 8
There's A Place - take 13
Seventeen (working title of I Saw Her Standing There) - from edit of takes 9 and 12
Twist And Shout - take 1
A Taste Of Honey - take 7
Ask Me Why - take 6
Baby It's You - take 5
Please Please Me - from edit of takes 16, 17, and 18
Love Me Do - (from 11 September 1962 mono remix)
P.S. I Love You - (from 11 September 1962 mono remix)

"Even though the LP was recorded on two-track tape, like all of the Beatles' recordings up to but not including "I Want To Hold Your Hand", people still wonder why the stereo version of the LP has such peculiar left/right channel separation, with the rhythm (backing) on the left and the vocals on the right.
George Martin. "The reason I used the stereo machine in twin track form was simply to make the mono better, to delay the virtual decision of submerging the voices into the background. I certainly didn't separate them for people to hear them separate!"

That said, many students of the group prefer the stereo version because it enables closer scrutiny of individual elements of the recording. For those who simply want a better sound however, the mono version is infinitely superior."
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In the author's opinion I guess. I like the stereo version much better, since acquiring a copy of Die Beatles earlier this year. I find it hard to listen to the mono EMI CD now.

 

With that album, I believe everything except Please Please Me and Ask Me Why were fold downs on the mono version.

On the With The Beatles albums a couple of songs do differ slightly between the mono and stereo versions. Money has a different piano intro and the ending of Little Child is a bit different in the fade out.

 

What has ALWAYS boggled my mind is why, if the stereo Please Please Me track is an edit of takes 16. 17 and 18, then WHY didnt they edit the mistake and fix that!!! Makes NO sense.

 

Please Please Me was actually a low budgeted Beatle album. Things were done in a hurry and at minimal cost. EMI really got their moneys worth.

They probably had no idea back in 1963 that anyone would be analizing these mixes 40 years later like we do.

 

Yea, but Johnny, they spent time editing the stereo version, editing stuff that didnt really need editing!! But they dont fix the MISTAKE?

 

George Martin and Norman Smith most likely said "oh well" and moved on.

 

Makes no sense, but I'm glad they didn't. The mistake is cool, and I love John's slight chuckle on the subsequent "c'mon". Ah, for the days when they'd just leave stuff like that in. The mono version sounds bland by comparison, to me.

 

Peter, in answer to your earlier question: Yes, my German Odeon PPM LP with red/white/gold label is catalog number ZTOX 5550. The cover looks like the UK version and the stamper numbers are side 1: SHZE-117A-1X and side 2: SHZE-117B-1. It sounds very good, but my original Horzu LP with a label and cover exactly like Steve's sounds better to me. The Horzu stamper numbers are also slightly different in their use of dashes - side 1: SHZE 117-A-2 and side 2: SHZE 117-B-2. I don't know what all this means - but i trust my ears.

 

I love the mistake but upon my first hearing it, I thought, why didn't the edit that and fix it. But then I love that chuckled laugh on C'mon as being as classic as John's vocal cracking as he sings the line "My happiness still makes me cry" on Ask Me Why. As it sounds so natural as if he was starting to actually cry. Very realistic and once again makes that song shine. I'm glad they didn't make him do an edit piece for that line of the song!

 

The true stereo version of the 12 stereo tracks as they appear on Introducing the Beatles on Vee-Jay is a surprisingly pleasant listening experience. As best as I can tell, Vee-Jay did no trans-Atlantic futzing to the stereo tape it got from EMI.

Of course, this stereo version is very difficult to find, as something like 3 percent of all the legitimate copies that were made are in stereo. And most of the counterfeits claim to be "stereophonic" on the cover, but their records are not.

 

Yes, but the Vee Jay Stereo tape is another two generations higher than the Parlophone tape. No reason to seek it out for sonics. The Die Beatles is SO much better sounding.

 

Both Cilla Black and Freddie and the Dreamers used the 4 track before the Beatles did.....

 

Randy:

Thank you for the clarification. I think I have a later red Hor Zu label than you do. I think mine is solid red with Hor Zu in black (i.e., no white at all). However, I have not played my copy of this LP yet. I must do so, compare the matrixes and post, for all of us. Fascinating, this stuff.

By the way, your ZTOX PPM is a super rare export version. If its excellent/mint , it's worth about $400.00.

Amoeba here in SF sold a ZTOX "Something New" for $700.00 recently. No freaking kidding. Then, last week, I walk into to Berkeley store and for $11.95, I get a record club copy of Revolver (IN THE SHRINK!!!!). You figure these guys out--beats the hell out of me. I'm going to ebay the record club LP. Useless to me. I know I'm thread crapping, but I couldn't resist.

 

Black color-band too, NOT lime green.

 

Thanks Peter. I'd say my Odeon ZTOX PPM copy is EX ++. My Something New and The Beatles' Greatest are on blue label Odeon. I also have Help on the later all red label Horzu and all three versions of the German MMT. I bought my original Horzu Die Beatles, which is a strong M-, at Record Surplus in LA for about $60 two months ago. For me, Die Beatles is as much a revelation as the narrow run out area German Apple MMT.

 

Indeed. I was at Record Surplus myself a few months back and the store seems to have "come alive" again. In the early 90's, it was a joke. And, you have a VERY NICE ZTOX PPM!!!!! Mine is only VG, with lots of light scratches, but it plays OK. Your Something New is also nice because its the only LP on whcih you can get "And I Love Her" with six closing beats not four. Nice. Same with Beatles Greatest--it has stereo tracks that are impossible (or near to) to find anywhere else, i.e., "From Me To You" and one or two others. You also need a German "Beatles Beat" for the same reason. Some nice stereo tracks. Remember, though, that the good blue labels have TWO sets of matrixes in the dead wax, not one. Check this forum elsewehere--lots of discussion on this.

 

Beat Records put out an excellent Cee Dee of the STEREO "Introducing The Beatles"

 

Randy, what do you consider to be the best version of the three W German MMT's? I have the second and third pressings. I'm missing the version with the old HörZu logo. I can't tell much difference. They both sound amazing.

 

This is quite awesome though to know or at least want to find out if there is any sound difference in each of these pressings Steve. But you could be right if the best sounding stamper was used for all three. ?????

 

My best sounding German MMT is an Apple with the narrower run out spaces. It is head and shoulders above the others (older is not necessarily better in this case). Stamper is side 1: 04449-A1+C and side 2: 04449-B1+C

 

Thanks Randy for your tip on this Magical German Mystery LP of 3 Tour! It's good to know that you have heard all three of them. I also wondered if it had to do with perhaps the thickness or type of vinyl used for each pressing perhaps, but this is great news that you've given us the Stamper numbers for each side on the Apple label version.

 

Randy, that sounds like the third pressing from around 1976-78. This version is without the HörZu logo, label number 1C 072-04-449. I'm pretty sure the first two pressings have the same label number, SHZE 327 and a version of the HörZu logo on the front cover and on the Apple label.

BTW, the stamper numbers on my copies are:
HörZu version
Side 1 - SHZE 327 A - 1
Side 2 - SHZE 327 B - 3

Apple only version has two stamper numbers on each side
Side 1 - SHZE 327 A - 1 and 04449-A-1
Side 2 - SHZE 327 B - 3 and 04449-B-3

The run-out groove on Side 2 of both albums appear to be about the same. I'd say they're both wide, but I don't have the earlier pressing to compare them to.

 

OK, I've had a chance to closely review all three versions of the German MMT LPs I have. The earliest LP I have is a Horzu/Apple MMT with a cover like the second one pictured in Mike's earlier post. It has the same label and SHZE stamper numbers as the top one in Mike's last post. To me it sounds very good. The second version I have is the German Apple MMT with Apple cover like the third one in Mike's earlier post and a label like the bottom label in Mike's last post. However, it has one stamper only on each side (04449-A1+C/04449-B1+C) and no SHZE numbers. It also has a narrower run out space than the Horzu MMT on both sides of the LP. This one sounds best. The third version I have has the same German Apple MMT cover, but the label on the LP is a 2 box EMI Parlophone with English and German lettering. Even though it has the narrow run out space and exact same single stamper as the good German Apple - it does not sound quite as good, although it is better than the Horzu MMT. Please note that even though I can detect differences between them, all of these albums sound better than the other versions out there (UK, US, MFSL, ...)

I hope I haven't confused - I have edited my posts above to reflect my observation that the best sounding German MMTs I have heard have a NARROWER run out groove area on BOTH sides.

 

Randy it's tricky sometimes looking for the stampers on the West German EMI LPs. For some reason the numbers at times are stamped at the very end of the run-out groove, butting up right against the edge of the label.

On my 1C 072 pressing of MMT, (the bottom labels on the scan I posted), the SHZE numbers are right against the label, almost impossible to see. The 04449 numbers are easy to spot as they were stamped in the middle of the run-out grooves. Check around the edge of the labels on your Apple pressing and see if the SHZE numbers are there as well.

The Apple 1C 072 version of MMT, I acquired this past June at the annual Calgary record fair. I paid $30. CDN. The copy is stone mint! I know the seller. We done some trades before. He always uses a VPI machine on his LPs before he sells them. My Apple/HörZu SHZE pressing I bought brand new back in around 1975. It's seen better days, but is still in great shape.

I've never seen or heard of a version on Parlophone other than the U.K. mid 1970s version that unfortunately used the U.S. master tape with the faux stereo "Penny Lane", "Baby Your A Rich Man", and "All You Need Is Love".

There is a fairly informative Web page dedicated to Beatles German LP pressings. They list 5 different LP version of MMT, one cassette and the original '67 EP.

1. 16/09/1971 - Hörzu SHZE 327*
(Apple label with Black Horzu Logo)

2. 1973 - Hörzu SHZE 327*
(Apple label with Black New Horzu Logo)

3. 1973 - Apple 1C 062-04 449
(Apple label, Remarks in English, Hand-written type)

4. 1973 - Odeon 28 642-7 (Club Issue)*
(Apple label, Remarks in English, Hand-written type)
with "Club-Sonderauflage" printed on the left side of the label.

5. 1976 - Apple 1C 072-04 449*
(Apple label, Remarks in English, Hand-written type)

There is no mention of an EMI-Parlophone version. Must be quite rare.

According to the above list, I have the second and fifth pressings.
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Apologies to Mike P. for steering this thread in away from the Please Please Me mono LP discussion. (The W German MMT is soooo good!)