THE BEATLES "Please Please Me" original mono? Also MMT German pressing info

The mono British 45 was used for the Vee-Jay version of "Please Please Me" -- the Vee-Jay 45 came out too early to be otherwise -- and that version of PPM is the one that appears on the mono Introducing the Beatles. The same is true of "Ask Me Why." It probably sounds BETTER on the British 45, but at least you get an idea of what it's supposed to be like by listening to the Vee-Jay disc.

 

DIE BEATLES appears to be the only version to use such a dub. I haven't heard of any other version sounding that good.

 

Yes, this would be "Step One" of any Beatles remastering process If I have anything to do with it: Get the PPM Lp RIGHT once and for all.

I'd use the "Die Beatles" master in ANY new release of this LP. Its stereo where possible, had no added echo and compression like the Parlaphone LP master tape has (that extra stuff is NOT on the session tapes that still exist).

For those who insist on a Mono "PPM" issue as well, ok fine. Fold down the Die Beatles master to mono. Thats all they did in 1963 to come up with the mono PPM LP. They just added all that extra nonsense as well, thats all.

The "Die Beatles" Lp is a real treat. I have a CDR of that and thats ALL I play now. Too bad 99% of those Beatles fans dont even know there is an amazing sounding version out there.

 

I can't even listen to the Mo-Fi anymore after hearing the German Apple version of Die Beatles.

Sounds all transistorized now.

 

Is your German red/white/gold PPM the one with the ZTOX catalogue number prefix? If so, then I have this too, and it DOES have the same stamper numbers as the "good" Die Beatles...I feel I am correct here, because I asked Steve this questions on this board a while back and he confirmed same. So, assuming your PPM has the "good" stampers it should sound identical to virtually all pressings of Die Beatles. Correct? Or, did I miss something here? I should add that I picked up a beautiful copy of Die Beatles in London this summer (red Hor Zu Label) with the "good" matrixes, but i have not yet had a chance to play it. Yeah, I know, shame on me.

Clarification, anyone?

 

Just curious. Was this the only early Beatles LP that was a stereo reduction to mono? What about With the Beatles?

 

Evan, both PPM and WTB were both recorded on Twin Track Machines. Thus, the "fold down" from 2 track is the only way to achieve a mono mix.

Starting with AHDN, The Beatles were recorded on 4 track, all the way thru and including Sgt Pepper.

 

Let me amend one part of my statement...."I Wanna Hold Your Hand" from WTB WAS recorded on 4 track, in fact it was the Beatles first 4 track recording.

 

Right....I blanked out for a minute.

 

Yes, I've heard all kinds of things about " Money". heres the recording data:

MONEY
basic recording- 18 Jul 1963
additional recording- 18 Jul, 30 Sep 1963
master tape- twintrack 2d(?) generation

I'm pretty sure this wasnt done on the 4 track. But I also dont think they sync'd the two track machines either...what a nightmare that would have been to keep the phasing right.

Rather, I think they did this:

recorded the backing instros and lead vocals on the twin track.

played that twin track back into the mixer , fed the vocal track equally into both channels to make it come from the center, mixed the instro track on the left.
While this was happening, the Beatles were adding the overdubs live, the piano (played by George Martin) was mixed to the right channel, the new vocals also fed equally to both channels making them also appear in the center. Not totally sure, of course but its possible.


Steve is also correct about that early 4 track. It was a Telefunken machine and was used by the Classical dept. People have said that Billy J Kramer was the only pop act allowed to use it by special consession of Sir joseph Lockwood.

That machine was replaced by the Studer in Oct of 1963, and on Oct 17th, 1963, The Beatles used it for "I Wanna Hold Your Hand" and "This Boy".

I believe that "I Wanna Be Your Man", cut on Sep 12th 1963 was the last song The Beatles recorded on the Twin Track machine.

Not sure if the above is how they cut "Money", but they supposedly did the same thing with the Harmonica on "Theres A Place".

 

I gotta agree with the new daddy here, the original stereo is the one to get. However, even a more recent British, German, or Japanese pressing is also the bees' knees, and won't disappoint. I don't care if it's only two-track, this album is not a true mono experience, and only the stereo satisfies. As for Money not being recorded in true four-track, EMI probably did not want to make the machine available to artists at that time.

Evan

 

I find the album not to be a "true" stereo experience. Sonics aside, how can you be satisfied with a presentation having a musician's voice in one speaker and his instrument in the other? Maybe you should have said that this album doesn't have a "true" mono mix, but it certainly IS a "true" mono experience. IMO it more realistically presents the music (again, sonics aside) in mono than stereo.

Just my $0.02

 

I'd have to dissagre. The stereo is (to me) a much more interesting listening experience than the mono. Its not discrete twin track, either like some of the Gary Lewis Lps..there is plenty going on in both channels.

"I Saw Her Standing There" is great in stereo, McCartneys bass really kicks.

 

Can you say the mono mix is a fold down, even if during mixing of the two tracks one track or the other is EQ'd, levels are adjusted, compression or echo is added? Since the mono mix was the primary focus, not the stereo (which was just the two track recording pretty much without any tampering), wouldn't the mono mix not only be unique (not able to be duplicated by simply pushing the mono button on your preamp) but also be closer to the intentions of the producer and engineer in terms of how it sounds? That's not exactly a simple "fold down."

 

You might have to scroll down a bit Kevin:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?postid=285481

 

Whats really cool is hearing the "spillover" reverb from the vocals on the instro track. I really Love that, it sounds SOOOOO '60s!!!

 

Maybe you should have said that it's not the stereo positioning that matters TO YOU. I personally do not like an unrealistic stereo presentation. That is why I said "sonics aside" in my posting. I wasn't disputing which sounded better, I was disputing the "mono" or "stereo" experience.

Do you know of a way to put Apogee Duetta Signatures on top of each other? Even if the ceiling in my music room was 10 feet high who is going to build the special frame that would be needed? Maybe box speakers can easily be put on top of each other, but certainly not planars!

 

Re: Re: Please Please Me original mono?

Steve, I'm confused now. If I take my stereo Die Beatles LP and flick the mono switch, I basically have the mono Please Please Me LP? Same with my stereo U.K. or Canadian With The Beatles?

I know you touched on this but for clarification again, there are differences between the stereo and mono song "Please Please Me". The stereo version has the John vocal mistake and laugh in the final verse, along with the wonky, out of sync harmonica bits. That is not the case on the mono version. Also would George Martin and Norman Smith not use the mono versions of "Love Me Do" and "P.S. I Love You" for the mono LP master? Why would they create fake stereo versions and then fold them back down to mono? And, doesn't "Ask Me Why" have its own mono mix too?

From the Mark Lewisohn book, The Complete Beatles Recording Sessions.

Friday 30 November 1962
Studio 2 (control room only): Mono mixing: "Please Please Me" (from unknown take number)
P: George Martin E: Norman Smith

On February 25 1963, when George Martin and Norman Smith were remixing for the Please Please Me LP, they used this day's mix of "Please Please Me" for the mono version, but did a new stereo mix, from takes 16, 17 and 18 for the stereo.

How can the mono PPM LP be a fold-down mix if two completely different versions of the song PPM were used for the mono and stereo mixing?