The Beach Boys original SMiLE to be released on CD and vinyl LP...(part 11)

Thanks for clarifying -- you're one of the few around here who CAN (or are willing to).

 

Just when I thought it was safe to come back to this thread.

 

Good question, I'm not sure. Andrew or Lou would be the ones to ask about that.

 

Best version of that album by far

 

I think it's a great representation, but it gets a lot of flack because of Brian Wilson's voice, and because the flow of the album isn't anything like what it would have been in the 60's.

I think it's magical, and it's pretty amazing to hear Brian revisit his youth from an older perspective.

 

OK. Some of the Fire mixes I have are stereo, though, which leads me to believe that some kind of experimentation was going on, or the grey market people mixed it that way. Not sure I'm with you on the crackling mix being final, and not just because it begins with a count-off....I just don't know...my copy sounds murky.



Dan

 

That's a COFFEE stain we're talking about!

 

I had to go back and check. Holy crap! If I came near my wife with those paws she'd slap me upside the head.

Maybe those are his bass picks?

 

Howard Hughes would be proud.

 

since the album was never released back in the day, of course all of the mixes made would have to be classified as provisional. They may have ended up on the album, or may not have. But we don't have as much information on them as we do, say, on Jimi Hendrix's mixes of songs for First Rays, because usually if it was a final mix there would be some indication on the tapebox that Jimi was satisfied with it - Chris M could tell us more about that. Nevertheless, since those Jimi mixes were made with his supervision, they are more authentic and interesting to me than later mixes, even though they may have been "unfinished."

Similarly with Smile, these are mixes that were, at least temporarily, something Brian was satisfied with it, as they resulted in a final product - a mono mix. There are a few mono mixes, as I've mentioned, but many more Brian supervised edits (I Wanna Be Around/Friday Night, Look, Cabinessence, Worms, OMP/Sunshine/Barnshine) where Brian took the "final" takes of the sections of the song and edited them together as he wanted for the final instrumental track. And mutiple Heroes "test mixes" or edits. But until he mixed something down to mono, it could never be considered "finished" - and since nothing was released even mono mixes can't be considered done as "this would have been on the album."

With Child we have Brian supervising an edit of the song sections into a three minute track AND mixing it down to mono. Why mix it down to mono without any vocals? It wasn't unusual for Brian to mix tracks to one track on an 8 track tape for vocal overdubs and possibly instrumental overdubs. That implies the track was finished enough that he may have been ready to overdub the vocals. Or he just wanted to hear the whole thing in mono, as he could only hear in mono, to evaluate what he wanted to do with it next. We have different edits of the individual sections of the song with vocal overdubs on the chorus - could mean he made the mono mix of the song after the sessions, but when he started doing the vocals he went back to the individual sections and was in the process of rearranging the parts.

The Child acetate that was used for one of the child tracks on TSS will be interesting to hear, and hopefully we can find out if there is a date on that, and what the date of the 3 minute mono mix was. That may help us sort out the evolution of the song.

 

Quite agree that most likely, no mixes were "it" when there was no finished album.

The existence of a vocal-less mix, to me, means a few things: evaluating the backing track, a mix for people to practice their vocal parts to on tape or acetate, or a mix for someone to arrange more parts or overdubs.

I forget if Brian had a 4 or 8 track at this point where he could listen to and/or solo up parts at home. If not, some of those strange-sounding rough mixes make sense. It's easy to do a bunch of work in the studio and lose your ability to discern at the end, so to me rough mixing is a must. Things can slip by. Or, maybe Brian fell into his microphone and couldn't hear exactly what was being mixed.


Dan

 

It seems as if the sheer amount of shuffling Brian was doing would preclude any Smile Era mix from being considered final. But I know some colleagues who have tried to make the case that Smile was nearly finished. The consensus among many of my colleagues is that it was about 70% done, but needed final mastering and sequencing. Everyone will have a different opinion, but the guys who worked with the tapes have concluded that Brian hit a point to where he couldn`t do technically what was needed to finish it. After reviewing Brian`s comments the last 8 years or so, I tend to agree with them.

On another note, it has been fun to follow this thread through 505 pages...who would have thought it would be that long? Special appreciation to Sean Murdock whose side by side chart helped make good sense out of a complex bundle of release information...

 

Well, it's far from conclusive, but it looks like a fully stereo version of SMiLE *could* be assembled from the various session tracks. It will take some work in Cool Edit Pro, but I definitely intend to try to do it. A problem may crop up with the "flown in" vocals, however.

 

I'm happy to help!

This thread has been a lot of fun ... and this is only the beginning! I just hope that once the box starts landing in our sweaty little hands, the inevitable debate and discussion is civil, respectful, and joyful.

 

Any stereo Fire 'mixes' were done by the SOT folks rather than Brian and Chuck. During the Smile sessions the focus was all mono.

The crackling mix is from a somewhat poor source, that and 'murky' was often what Brian was going for. In any event, being that it is the only vintage mix and only version with the overdubbed sound f/x it almost certainly, finished or not, represents the track in its most complete 1966/7 form.

 

FFS, where's the fun in that ?

 

Well, maybe you and Phil can have your own thread ...

 

The original Smile tape from the late 1970s has takes of "MO'LC" in stereo.

 

Is it possible that they know that the acetate mix of Child that is on disc 1, came AFTER the 3 minute version? And further, that since it had vocals on it, it REPLACED the earlier 3 minute one.

If that was the case, it would make since that it would be put on, and the 3 minute one not included.

If what I typed made any sense.

 

Is that the same thing as Dennis' "Fire Tape" from '78?

 

From talking with Darian and Domenic Priore, I get the sense that the whole question mark over the sequencing is a major red herring. Sure its what fans have speculated on and obsessed over for decades, but for Brian in 1967, the track list was a very minor concern compared to the mixing and editing of the various sections within each individual song. Smile was not shelved because Brian couldn't figure out how to sequence it.

Good Vibrations took, what 6 months to complete? Brian was taking a similar amount of time with Heroes & Villains, constantly changing, adding, subtracting and re-recording parts. Basically he went full-on obsessive compulsive about that one song and a few others within the Smile project. It seems that in some cases Brian had too many good ideas for certain songs, while for others, he conversely had too little confidence to go with his instincts and started second-guessing himself.

 

Don't forget "Wonderful" from the GV box (which seems to be the basis for the new version) - I think it's from an acetate of an original Brian Wilson mix.

As to known original mixes not being included in the box set, I'd go so far as to say that the original 45 mixes of "Good Vibrations" and "Heroes And Villains" ought to have been included too.

 

Weren't they on Smiley Smile so they figured you would get them there instead?

 

Personally, I wouldn't want anything NEW getting bumped from the set to make room for something previously released, like the "H&V" or "Good Vibes" 45 mixes. It's not like they left 10 minutes empty on each disc, and we can debate what "should have" been on there -- these are the most STUFFED discs I've ever seen in a box set, so anything from our personal wish lists that gets added means something has to get CUT.

 

I am *really okay* that those are not on here. Honestly, I have both of those in *so many other places* I don't need them again. If I honestly wanna be completist, I can just drag things from one part of my iTunes to another.