Talk Talk Laughing Stock to be reissued on Vinyl!!

For those curious about the recording process (and whether it is digital or analog), I just dug out Phill Brown's book... here are some of the details.

They recorded to a Studer A800 24-track (2" machine) with Dolby SR at 30 ips. They striped one track with SMTPE timecode so that they could also slave a second Studer machine for additional tracks. At some point, most of this was transferred down to a Mitsubishi 32-track digital machine.

For mixdown, he doesn't mention a specific medium, but he does mention that at the end of the process, they had the 50 reels of 2" tape, nine reels of 32-track digital tape, 10 DAT tapes and 18 computer discs. I assume it was mixed to DAT, but I can't confirm it. I checked the Phill Brown Q&A forum at Gearslutz and there's no mention of the mixdown medium.

 

For Colour of Spring, just grab an US 80s Wally pressing. It sounds fantastic.

 

There must have been a ridiculous amount of music on all that. Even though most of it got junked i wonder if Mark Hollis erased all the music that they did not use in the end. I guess it would never come out anyway even if Phill Brown has personal copies.

 

From other stories (probably anecdotal) I understand Hollis was extremely protective about how their music should sound. I wouldn't be at all surprised if alternate takes, recordings or mixes were destroyed...

 

I emailed Phill Brown through his website. His response:

 

So there you have it: Laughing Stock was tracked in a combo of analog and digital, then mixed to 1/2" analog. So an analog master exists.

If Ba Da Bing says this was cut from a "CD master", we still don't know what that actually means. It could be a digital clone of the DAT backup, it could be from a digital version that Abbey Road prepped during mastering for vinyl and CD in the early 90s. Or, it could just be a commercial CD (which might be identical to the Abbey Road CD master anyway).

 

nice leg work!! thanks for clearing that up.

W

 

that's why i love this forum

 

The frustrating thing is: we may never know... I'm getting the idea that Ba Da Bing records is a company that has jumped on the vinyl bandwagon but is (as far as I can see on their site and Facebook-page) in any way really concered with the sound-quality of these products.
Your research (and thanks for that!) shows that Laughing Stock should get a decent audiophile treatment!

 

Indeed......excellent research and it really just begs the question of why we would be getting anything other than an audiophile grade reissue of this album in the vinyl format? Seems like a real wasted opportunity. I would have gladly plunked down $50 for this executed correctly.

 

Guys, BaDaBing is a really small independent label. They're not typically a reissue label and they are certainly not a boutique audiophile label. They've released some really great music from artists like Sharon Van Etten, and they're good folks who care about music a lot (though not necessarily audiophiles). They also released (or co-released) the Galaxie 500 LP reissues from a couple years ago. Those were not sourced from the original analog masters either, but those who have heard them seemed to think they sounded great (I think Kevin Grey mastered them DAT if memory serves correctly). Could we at least wait until someone hears these releases before pissing all over these guys?

 

I'm not pissing over them and I'm certainly not disputing the quality of the music they're (re-) releasing! Especially the Talk Talk- and Mark Hollis albums are great! What they could have done so far is a bit more specific about their working methods regarding and they haven't provide me with an answer about that (yet). As soon as the Mark Hollis- vinyl makes its first appearance on my turntable I give it an honest chance!

 

Very few labels will provide you with that information specifically. At most labels, even if you did get an honest attempt at an answer, it could easily be wrong because a lot of these folks are not well versed in the finer points of what is an original master tape vs. a production master, etc. You might have better luck if you asked them who is mastering the vinyl, then attempted to contact that person, because the mastering engineer will at least know what he is talking about.

Also, keep in mind, going to the original master tape is no guarantee of good sound, it very much depends what the mastering engineer does with the tapes, and especially with their skill at cutting vinyl. I've bought my fair share of vinyl reissues supposedly cut from the original master tapes at premium prices that don't sound very good. I've also bought vinyl reissues that were sourced from digital that sound terrific. You're pretty much taking a chance on any new or reissued vinyl you buy, but at least these are only a $16 chance.

 

I'm thankful for my vinyl-spinning friends that Laughing Stock is being reissued on LP; it (along with Spirit Of Eden) is an absolute classic. Am I alone though, in thinking the CD sounds pretty decent? (I've got the Polydor CD...)

 

You are not. I have a hard time understanding the excitement about this LP reissue. This is a very quiet album, likely to be marred by vinyl noises. It also isn't an audiophile recording, benefiting a lot from the higher "resolution" of vinyl.

So the excitement (two exclamation marks in the thread title) seems to be all about the fact that this album is very rare on LP, as it was released at a time when vinyl was disappearing. If original pressings were easily available in second hand stores, nobody would care about this reissue.

 

The most unfortunate name for a record label I've ever heard. Were these guys living under a rock?

The vinyl release could be the best sounding of all if you've got a decent analog setup. Even digitally sourced lp's can sound fantastic and beat their cd counterparts. I'm glad "BaDaBing" (can't believe I just typed that, wtf?) is releasing this. Hopefully Talk Talk will find another label for future reissues.

 

+1

The folks at BaDaBing are true music fans who are doing good work. The last Sharon Van Etten album is awesome, and I'm still having a hard time believing that this indie label is releasing Laughing Stock and Mark Hollis! Kudos to them...

By investigating the facts about the mixdown of Laughing Stock, I am in no way saying "don't buy this." In fact, I'll probably be buying Laughing Stock. The price is right, and it might sound great.

I had no idea that Kevin Grey did the Galaxie 500 reissues. I'm hoping he did these too. Kevin has done some excellent work from digital tapes (the first CSS album for example, and the second Black Swans LP), so perhaps these will be good copies to own. I'm going to lay down the $16 on Tuesday and let my ears be the judge. But in the future, if an audiophile label decides to release a 180g edition from the analog masters, I'm all over it.

 

I totally agree with you, and appreciate your research into how LS was recorded and mixed. Great job. I was also surprised that such a small label would be doing these reissues, but it definitely shows what great taste they have.

 

Just to understand better what some seem to be suggesting here.....other than getting to watch a slab of vinyl spin with a needle on top of it.....there might actually be real potential audible benefits to an LP versus it's CD counterpart which were both derived from the same digital source?

 

Well, there's a question I'd like to see answered!

 

The cutting engineer can do many things when cutting the lacquers, not the least of which is EQ. For example, if a CD is bright, the cutting engineer can fix that when cutting the lacquers. Can they improve the detail or soundstage? That's debatable, but they have their tricks.

 

To echo what ad180 says above, yes. It would depend very much on how each was mastered. But at worst, my aging eyes will soon have some artwork they have some hope of being able to focus on.

 

Love the Hollis pressing. Haven't dug into the LS vinyl yet, though.

 

well ,ordered the mark hollis hoping for the best...listened to my original laughing stock tonight and although noisy with the occasional pops,when songs like New Grass kick in...man,i can't imagine it being topped...but i was fortunate to get one upon release and yet wholeheartedly support anyone picking up this reissue-you have to really, each of the songs is an experience...this music deserves to be re-introduced!!! and i commend the label for having the taste to release it.

 

I asked European Importer Boomkat (see the links earlier in this thread) and they don't know anything about the sources either. They use an interesting argument:"We're just a shop"... Well, that's why I like to shop in (online) stores who do know where their stuff is made from....