Suggestions for Vinyl Newbies

Now you need to get the RE-2 for Neil's excellent re-mix of When You Dance.... 'tis wonderful!

If have access to cheap vinyl in quantity somewhere, its fun to pick up two or three differently matrix'd or marked copies of the same album to compare them. A lot of Capitol label pressings of the early 70's - like Leon Russell and Linda Ronstadt - vary quite a bit sound-wise just through the numbers. Some are hot and others are just OK. Its a big learning curve and I'm in the middle of it still...

 

I actually already have that... two copies, one with the rare lavender colored lettering on the cover... but I'm having trouble telling the difference...am I deaf? or just dumb? I got tipped to the sound quality of an orginal Artisan by a thread poster here... so much good info.. so little time and money...

I do have access and I am indulging... much to my wife's chagrin...

 

Thanks for the info, Sung!

 

que quick question...

Sorry to ask this question here, but nobody's yet started a newbie to cd collecting thread...

what does:

"CDD pre-mastering by"... mean?

in this case by WCI Record Group...

any help apreciated...


sorry to TCrap...

 

IIRC, it refers to the preparation of the glass CD master. (CDD means Compact Digital Disc)

-Aaron

 

I'd prefer to see this thread remain on course for the reason that Sung started it in the first place, and that being as the title says, "Suggestions For Vinyl Newbies". I'm getting the impression there is still much Sung wants to address for the vinyl newbie, but he is getting side tracked.

There are at least a couple of instances where the question asked above has been answered, and if I'm not mistaken, it was Barry Diament who addressed the issue. I recommend doing a search, but here's a little something to steer you in the right direction...http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=2210630&postcount=41

 

Here's a question that might tempt Sung back to this thread:

I have an Italian-made copy of Heroes with a UK-made cover. Side one has a PL cat number in the matrix. Side two has STERLING and an AFL cat number which has been scratched out and replaced with the PL number. I'm guessing that RCA Italy used a US or UK stamper for side two and their own one for side one. But I'm probably wrong, so can someone set me straight?

Thanks

 

Helpful thread!!!

What is the reason sometimes info in the dead wax is scratched out?

 

Thank you...


and sorry...



I too am very much enjoying the info here, Sung's especially..

cheers,

 

My apologies for being gone so long but my son's roller coaster baseball season has been keeping me away. What soap opera!

First, someone else asked about scratched out dead wax info replaced with another. If there IS another copy of that particular record with the scratched out dead wax matrix not scratched out, then the one with that dead wax matrix scratched out is a later pressing using the SAME lacquer/metal parts. Basically, the existence of a copy with a particular dead wax matrix (for example, xxxxx-1A) means that that matrix was put on a particular lacquer from which that particular copy was pressed. The existence of another copy with that dead wax matrix crossed out and another matrix etched next to, over or elsewhere from the crossed out information means that, at some point later, someone took the lacquer/metal parts and made additional mothers and stampers from the lacquer/metal parts. There may be several reasons for crossing out the original matrix on the lacquer/metal parts. Time may have passed and a new cat. no. may have been assigned to that particular LP. The lacquer/metal parts may have been shipped to another country for a release there and that country has a different cat. no. for that LP. The mastering engineer may be someone different and just wanted to leave his/her mark on the dead wax. The mastering engineer may wanted to differentiate the later pressing from the original. I am sure there are many more possible reasons.

Now, back to your question. I am not familiar with Italian RCA cat. nos. or the album Heroes but it is not uncommon for a particular record originally released in the US and sold outside the US to have the US markings on one side and that foreign country's markings on the other side. I think it has to do with import taxes. I think if more than 50% of a particular record is made domestically (from the foreign country's stand point, that is), then there may be an exemption from import tax. I think for the same reason, sometimes the cover is also manufactured by another country if it makes sense (either cost or timing). For example, The Who, Who's Next was first released in the US and the first lacquer(s) were cut in the US by Doug Sax of The Mastering Lab. Because there was a huge anticipation for its release in the UK, the lacquer and some covers were sent from the US to the UK for timing reasons. Some of these covers were also used in the US (e.g., the cover with the top and bottom inch or so of the spine "pinched", which was common among UK LPs at the time -- see, The Beatles, Decca classical LPs, EMI classical LPs, etc. of that era), as there are early US pressings of Who's Next which has the cover similarly pinched at the top and bottom of the spine. US Decca probably used up the excess inventory for its US release of Who's Next.

Anyway, your guess is most likely correct, and you are already well beyond this Vinyl Newbie class!

 

I've noticed on many albums on the Chrysalis label, the UK pressings have the exact info in the dead wax, as the U.S. pressing. By exact, I mean the hand writing is the same as it's U.S. counterpart, and it's alpha numerics matrices are the same. They usually have the 'Sterling' or 'TML' stamp also.

If it's a U.S. artist, I just kind of assumed that U.S. stampers were sent over to the UK. However, I've seen it on several ocassions where it was a UK artist, but stampers seemed to be more in line with a U.S. pressing.

Any light that can be shed on this for me, would be greatly appreciated.

 

This is addressed to sungshinla, but anyone can feel free to reply:

What's your take on audiophile reissues? Are Classics, MoFis, etc, really worth the extra money, or is it better to buy earlier standard pressings?

Genearlly speaking, of course!

 

I made you answer your own question!


My opinion of course. There are some audiophile pressings that are good competition for an original. One that comes to mind is the Nautilus pressing of The Doobie Bros. / The Captain & Me.

The Classic re-releases for example are generally real nice. Not always 'better' than an original in the ultimate sense - but affordable, clean & quiet, and close to the best originals. The Who LPs are hard to beat unless you score a nice original UK pressing. Whereas Led Zep, frankly, I think a good US is better.

 

Yeah. Personally, I've never bought an audiophile reissue LP. Doesn't seem worth it, unless the originals cost MUCH more.

 

I think there may be at least one advantage of buying audiophile releases. That is in getting a nice clean quiet pressing. If the release sounds just as good or very close to an original and its hard to find NM then those reissues come in handy.

Also, if its a different mastering- such as Tres Hombres- and you like it better or as much. That's another reason. I try not to overdo the buying of reissues though unless these two things are the case.

I would probably be hard pressed , for example, to find a super clean copy of " Song's For Distingue Lover's" that would match the fidelity of the Classic 45.

So I think there are some cases where reissued audiophile lps are pretty znazzy.

 

Great thread.

I will be looking at a lot of deadwax trying to decipher the different codes.

 

Personally, I think it can be mixed. Sometimes a country of origin original is the best and sometimes the reissue may be better. I think Steve's mastering has often created the ultimate version of many classics. You almost have to do the research on an LP by LP basis. For example, the best copy of Small Faces Odgen's Nut Gone Flake I've heard is a 1st UK pressing. On the other hand, I prefer Classic's Jethro Tull Aqualung to my UK original copy.

I think you should consider too that sometimes orignals are very expensive, much more than the reissue, and a good audiophile reissue may give you 95% of the sound at a fraction of the cost. Many like MFSL and DCC reissues increase in value too so that can be a consideration. The Classic Led Zeppelin catalogue has increased in price greatly since they went OOP last year.

 

Most helpful - thank you!

George

 

Generally speaking, I would agree that earlier standard pressings (in NM condition and with the best stampers) are the way to go - for about 70% of audiophile repressed titles anyway.

There are however those other 30% that either 1) never sounded that great on any early pressing from any country, or 2) are very difficult to find in great condition, or 3) have been improved on even more with certain audiophile pressings. If you bought those particular audiophile reissue pressings when they first came out, then you can argue that those are the ones to have - because they were accessible, quiet, and/or the best sounding. Unfortunately many of those are hard to find or expensive now - like many of the best sounding originals.

A general search of this forum for the titles you are most interested in is always a good idea. Then hunt down a few examples of the most preferred pressings, play them and decide for yourself. Sometimes you will be surprised that the differences are not that great, or one that was not heralded is the obvious winner on your system and in your room.

 

Indeed. Although I have a LZII cut by George Piros that I'm very happy with, I'm still on the hunt for a Robert Ludwig cut if I can find one for less than $25. I want to see for myself if I can "hear the magic." If not, then my vinyl future will certainly be less expensive!

 

What Is And What Should Never Be....

I got dibs on that under $25 buck copy of Zep II (RL...)

(I wish to compare it to the MFSL AND the UK original...)

 

I think it probably varies title to title. Having said that, I can't imagine an original pressing of Monk's Brilliant Corners sounding better than the 45rpm version that SH cut for Analogue Productions. The 45 of Bridge Over Troubled Water is also a revelation. I sent a needledrop I did of it to a friend and he said he finally "got" the album after years of just not being engaged by it. I'm disappointed that I was never able to buy the 45 of Kind of Blue, as it's said to be the best sounding version out there.

So I guess I'm raving about the 45 RPM cuts more than anything. The thing about reissue LPs in general is that they will a) be cheaper than an original, like Oliver Nelson's Blues and the Abstract Truth (original $100+, reissue, $25) and b) possibly easier to get a quiet pressing of than if you bought an original.

 

great discussion. very informative. even to people who have been collecting vinyl for a while.

 

Minty, Tasty Records for a buck...

May I suggest that this is a GREAT time to be collecting vinyl?

It is available sooooo cheap and often in great shape, some places are practically giving it away.

Case in point, this weekend I hit five stores in the Bay Area, and bought mostly (dirt) cheap used Lps, under $5 bucks, many for a buck each, and all were original pressings, mostly near mint, and/or very listenable copies, some nice Sterlings, RLs, LHs, Artisans, etc... and playing them these past few days I have been very pleased sonically, some of these are stunning--see McCartney thread just resurrected. One place, Streelight Records, in San Jose, had a bunch of killer minty original pressings in their dollar bins, and come to find out it was 'buy two get one free' time... so they were even less than a dollar... talk about bang for the buck...

Now I collect fine sounding Cds too, and some scored can be had in that dept too these days, but folks, vinyl collectors, new and old, there are some really fine deals (steals) even to be had out there (and even in here in the Classifieds) for self-educated forum members who have done their homework round these threads and learned from the masters...

I'm just saying it is a great time to be a 'vinyl newbie' or even a long-time vinyl collector who is revisiting his old haunts--or even his/her old collection, and finding the endless sonic pleasures in warm analogue long-players, many, NOW, to be had for a mere pittance...


cheers,

 

Thanks for this awesome thread Sung!

Anything else you can think to add now that some time has passed?

Would love to learn more Vinyl 101.