I've read that too, but we've also been told that Steve's version was pressed first (i.e., the first 5,000 copies).
We've also been told that Dave's Japan pressing is *not* Steve's mastering and we know both Japan pressings have the same mastering. So, based on that, Mr. Nichols' comments and the sound - again I believe we have Nichols' mastering. That's my opinion. Besides, does Steve's AJA and Katy Lied *really* exist if no one here including Steve himself has one or can identify one?
Zen Buddhist CD collecting: If a tree falls in the forest... Are we sure we can identify different masterings just by the physical characteristics of the discs and the matrix numbering? What if they switched masters without indicating at all? Again, just an "out-of the box" suggestion. It's clear we aren't getting any closer following our (usually logical) conventional wisdom....
In addition, Steve if you're going to lurk this thread (and we know you are) then please help so we can stop beating this dead horse.
That's the point. We don't know. We don't know if Steve's versions exists and are very rare, exist and are right in front of us (i.e., all Japanese pressings are his versions), or do not exist.
Aren't the Japanese and US original Aja CDs the same as proven in a bit-for-bit comparison? The difference in sound supposedly comes from this controversial "jitter" theory. I guess that would mean it's either extremely rare among the Japanese pressings or they don't exist at all.
Keep in mind that these digital masters are NOT the tapes that SH used...he chose to use the same "deteriorating" analog masters that MFSL used.
"Not to pick on Ed, but why are we assuming that what we are all listening to is the Nichols version? What evidence do we really have? There is no evidence to indicate that both versions exist, but there is also no evidence to say what exactly we are listening to either." Keith, Maybe what I was saying was confusing, but what I am trying to say is that I'm very happy with the original Manufactured In Japan MCA CD, as I see that a lot of other forum members are also, and that everyone should be glad to at least have that version of the CD. From reading all of the threads on this subject throughout this forum, I always got the impression that the Manufactured In Japan MCA "Aja" CD that I have was mastered by Roger Nichols. Bottom line, to me it doesn't matter who mastered this CD, I am very happy with it!! Ed Hurdle HeavyDistortion
Ed, I don't know what I have, but I love how my Japanese pressings sound! There is no better digital version of Aja that I am aware of. So I would recommend that folks happily take any Japanese pressing they can find (CBS/Sony or JVC pressing). However, if a different Japanese pressing is ever uncovered, I would love to hear it!
Here's a question I have for anyone here. It's been said that the first 5,000 copies of Aja and Katy Lied that were pressed in Japan were made from Steve's masters. The remaining Japanese pressings of these albums were made from Nichols' masters. Also, all other original pressings of Steely Dan albums were made from Nichols' masters. Now, some people here, believing that they have Steve's versions of Aja and/or Katy Lied, say that these discs have the "Hoffman sound". This is obviously highly subjective, but if you have old Japanese pressings of other Steely Dan albums, do they have a similar sonic signature? I know that we are talking about different albums and different master tapes, but what do you think? If you listen to a Japanese pressing of Gaucho, for example, does it have a similar sonic signature to the supposed Hoffman versions of Aja and Katy Lied? I have Japanese pressings of all the Dan albums except for The Royal Scam, and I think they all sound warm, smooth, and natural. However, I don't profess to be an expert of the "Hoffman sound" like some folks here probably are. So, what do you guys think? Here is one other thought to ponder. MCA pressed two Steely Dan albums in Japan in 1984 -- Aja and Gaucho. If you look at inserts for the original versions of these albums, you will see copyright dates of 1984 in addition to the original year of release of the albums. All other Dan albums were first pressed on CD by MCA in 1985. Now, the original pressings of Aja and Gaucho came from the CBS/Sony plant ("CSR COMPACT DISC" repeating in the plastic ring and "DIDX" numbers in the matrix codes). These discs were pressed in '84. Subsequent pressings of Aja and Katy Lied were made at the JVC plant in '85 (nothing stamped on the plastic rings and "MCAD" catalog numbers in the plastic rings). Since we know that all copies of Gaucho were made from the Nichols master, we know that the CBS/Sony plant worked off of the Nichols master of this album in 1984. Is it likely, then, that Steve's master of Aja "snuck into" the CBS/Sony plant for a short period in 1984? I have to doubt it. Likewise, we know that the JVC plant worked off of Nichols' masters of Can't Buy A Thrill, Countdown to Ecstasy, Pretzel Logic, The Royal Scam, and Gaucho in 1985. Is it likely, then, that Steve's master of Katy Lied "snuck into" the JVC plant for a short period in 1985? Again, I have to doubt it. In all of this, my guess is that all Japanese pressings of Aja and Katy Lied derive from the Nichols masters. Perhaps MCA simply decided not to use Steve's masters. Maybe they wanted to be consistent with the mastering across the Dan catalog. Maybe it was a political decision given Nichols' connection with Steely Dan. Here is one last thought. Steve once said that he made his digital masters of Aja and Katy Lied on a fragile medium. Is it possible that these masters degraded, at least partially, before MCA could use them?
By the way, has anyone ever asked Roger Nichols about this whole Aja/Katy Lied thing? Anyone here know him well enough?
An open letter to Roger Nichols No, not that I'm aware of. Well, I found his e-mail address and phone number at his site: --personal info removed by staff-- Perhaps, we should compose a little letter for Mr. Nichols? What do you guys think?
I don't think it wise to call this man on his phone, or bombard him with e-mails. That is not going to solve anything! I mean, yes it is an answer, but it could be harrassment as well. Better to speculate to our hearts content rather than make an enemy of us and those that are representative of Steve Hoffman. Remember, when we act as this forum, we drag him by proxy into it, and that ain't cool 'cause he doesn't need that hassle! However, as a request to Steve, to stop this goofy madness that seems to be rampant with this subject, could you at least tell us that you know about as little as we do on the subject of pressings and markings etc... so there is no need to bait your involvement every 10 seconds or so on this, let's face it, exhaustive and quite stupifying subject? (BTW that wasn't a taunt, just a request for you to speak so your board members can "cool their boots" on this for a while...)
Um, I don't believe that Roger would be too offended by "one" well written email syd, which was more along the lines of what I was thinking.
I understand my friend. Sorry to go that distance...I guess one is ok. Perhaps with this kinda representation of this forum, we should check first with Steve to ask if he's cool with it first...(unless this would have nothing to do with the forum as it is being presented)
This was exactly my thought. BTW, welcome back to thread, Dave. We were wondering if you would return.
And you prove it so well(just kidding )!! Like I said, I'm really happy with my Aja disc, no matter who mastered it. Maybe we should start a Rogernichols Forum?! Evan
Thanks. Anything is possible, but I'm guessing that MCA was organized in bringing the Dan catalog to CD and went with Nichols' masters across the board. Maybe I'm being naive, but that's my thinking. Now, if the story went that the first 5,000 copies of Aja and Gaucho, both of which were first pressed in '84, were derived from Hoffman masters, then I could see a switch over to Nichols' masters for pressings at the JVC plant in '85. However, we are talking about a first pressing of one album made in '84 and a first pressing of another album made in '85 being made from Hoffman masters while Nichols masters were being used for other albums at the same time (Gaucho in '84 and a slew of albums in '85). The whole 5,000-copy thing just doesn't make a lot of sense.
I don't see a problem with one person contacting Mr. Nichols about all of this. We would have to agree that one person do it. Nichols has his contact information in the public domain, so it is not out of line to contact him. Perhaps he can shed some light on this matter. Look, I know that my posts could construe me as a PITA, but I love Aja and Katy Lied and I am a collector. I want to know once and for all if rare CD versions of these albums exist and how I might identify them. This Aja/Katy Lied thing has taken on "urban legend" status. It should be noted that I paid a good amount of money for copies of Aja and Katy Lied that showed the characteristics of the "Hoffman" versions.
Yes, I recall being in a fierce eBay bidding war with you (and losing) about a year ago for a "Hoffman" Katy Lied. So, who should compose and send a message for Mr. Nichols? Who knows, perhaps he'll join the SH Forums as a result?
Your posts are entertaining! You don't come off as a PITA. (had to think what that was - then I got hungry!) Good point. So who is gonna be the fall g- I mean, communicator?
