Stereophile says 24/96 is the Future of Audio - Agree?

This is Sony Music, they don't support DVD-Audio and they haven't released SACD in years, so the options reflect realistic releases. Historically even their DualDisc releases were handicapped with 16/48 "Enhanced Stereo" PCM. 24-bit is being generous.

 

Having kept up with this thread, the thing that jumps out at me is how many different "formats" are being discussed. I'm not sure which one is the best, but I know they can't all survive and flourish. If there is going to be a real Hi-rez or High-end alternative to the MP3 world, it will need to be a single format. The SACD -VS- DVD-A disaster should prove that.

If you end up with various types of Hi-rez downloads competing with various kinds of disc formats you will fragment an already small market and none will survive. You will end up with the same 100 classic rock titles being reworked, while hundreds of thousands of other titles disappear into MP3 land never to be heard from again.

 

Hi all,

I've put up new comparison samples (16/44, 24/96 and 24/192 .wav) here.
I hope you enjoy the music.

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

You may be correct, but I would actually predict that the multiple format model is more likely. As computer power and bandwidth become cheaper, it is at least foreseeable that one high-res, non-physical format will be available (sold?), not necessarily the same for each artist, and the consumer can do what he wants with it. That may not suit the commercial interests of current record companies (as they see it), but I suspect that artists will begin predominantly selling their own music, either through the Internet or other novel methods of distribution, bypassing the "industry" entirely. It's simply too easy and affordable to record and distribute your own music today. You don't need a big, dedicated company for access to (and payment for) studio recording time, physical media production and distribution.

We'll see if that turns out to be pie-in-the-sky.

 

I think your model works well for new artists trying to get their music out there, but what about catalog titles? Artists like Peggy Lee, Count Basie, The Buckinghams, The Rascals would all disappear or be stuck forever in MP3 land. At that point the CD would become more important to me, not less.

 

Problem is, the labels want the ability to restrict or prevent the copying of those hi-rez formats.

 

I don't blame them. That's why I thought SACD would become the standard as it would stop the wholesale piracy that is rife throughout the industry.

 

But they can still be copied, without regard to preserving the original the sound quality.

Bottom line: there is no way to totally prevent people from doing what they want to their legally purchased music or movies. I understand people even cracked the CP on Blu-ray. That's why they keep updating the firmware on the players and changing the CP code on the discs.

 

I think if SACDs had become more popular with the general public, hackers would have found a way to crack their protection but since they at best remained in a niche market, the effort didn't make as much sense. Although the same could be said for DVD-A, it was apparently much easier to crack.

 

not to mention Blu-Ray...

For most users getting high-res off SACD wasn't an issue; they'd be happy with CD quality for the iPod or lower.

If they don't keep the format alive, nasty things will happen in the future (one of which will be the unavailablity of transports that have that custom watermark modulation decoder chip, which will disappear as it did on the PS3) if SACD falls off the 'universal player' list.

There's a lot to be said for analog. I can still play my 1899 Berliner discs.

 

Aren't SACDs physically just DVDs? If the format had really taken off, you'd bet your butt that hackers would have figured out how to rip them using a standard DVD drive.

 

No, it can't be done because the SACD discs are formatted differently.

 

I admit I would prefer to buy a factory-made disc with 96/24 PCM, but if a file format is all that is offered (which can be transferred to a thumbdrive or a recordable dvd), I'll take that. Because in either case:

* Blu-ray players (as far as I know) can handle 96/24 discs or files accessed via the USB ports most seem to include; same with the millions of dvd-video players already out there, and many of those sold the last few years also include USB ports.

* this is just a casual observation with no hard numbers to back it up, but many studios seem to be recording new music using 96/24 and more importantly, not just the audiophile labels (sorry, but to me most "audiophile" labels put out some really yawn-inducing music ).

* there's a multitude of 96/24 standalone DACs available, along with the many preamps and A/V receivers that include 96/24 playback capability.

 

If that were possible, it would have been done.

It's not. There is a physical key encoded in SACD pressings that never leaves the transport in a licensed player.

So far there is no stand-alone computer SACD compatible transport, though rumours persist. Even in the pro world, SACD is a pain (no burning for review, limited plants for test and production etc...)

In the future, unlike CD and DVD, 'clone' replication is also not an option. Many limited releases are done this way and look at the rise of burn on demand rarities from Amazon and Arkivmusic. Can't happen with SACD.

 

Mikey, come on. You're underestimating the will of pirates and hackers. The only reason why it hasn't been done is because the format is so damn niche. The people interested in it aren't the people who would be interested in ripping or downloading it.

 

I'm sure if someone wants to clone, or reverse engineer that processing chip they could. But it's not the level of hacker and computer.

There have been successful attempts at getting to the data later in the chain, though they're not widely used. Some players output a licensed digital signal.

I see plenty of 24/96 and 24/192 rips of other formats that seem to be popular. SACD would be in there if it were useful.

 

I think most of your points are right on. I don't really care much about which format takes hold, I just hope one wins out.

I also agree that the choices provided by audiophile labels right now are very underwhelming. For that reason I hope the big labels manage to stay involved at some level so at least some deeper catalog titles can see the light of day in the great new format. I don't really feel in great excitement about another chance to buy Goodbye Yellow Brick Road or the same 20 Blue Note titles again.

 

The SACD bit stream can be extracted but requires very expensive transport and DAC. An engineer told me how they accomplish this, under license, but I've since forgotten exactly what is required.

 

Mytek is coming out with a DSD (and 192 kHz) capable DAC in the near future. It will be around $1500.

 

A question, please. maybe I've missed the answer upthread...

Can tracks downloaded 24/96 can be transferred to another computer via a flash drive? I have a 24/96 album downloaded onto my notebook I want to move to my desktop to take advantage of my DAC's 24/96 decoding through its S/PDIF connections. My notebook is USB out only and the DAC doesn't do 24/96 through its USB.

Thank you.

 

Once you have it, it's yours. I don't believe there is any form of encoding in the download that would prevent you doing that - and more.

 

DVD-Audio was pretty 'niche' too, and hackers made short work of its encryption. It's been possible to 'rip' DVD-Audio for years now.

From what I've read, SACD has *better* protection, that's why it wasn't hacked.

 

Yes.

 

YES

 

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What is nice about 2496 pcm is that it is playable on BluRay players, current DVD and many older DVD players with 2496 dacs. No dedicated player is needed.

Of course, THAT is probably why it will never be adopted as the new HIREZ std.

You might check out the BlueCoast website as they were offering some 2496 pcm downloads for free as a trial of their music. They were offered in conjuntion with the CA Audio show last weekend. You might check it out. The downloads took a while, but there are very nice.

Regards,