Statement from Capitol Records on THE BEATLES "The Capitol Albums Vol. 2" set

If that is the case, then why wasn't Capitol offered the "dedicated mono mixes", so they wouldn't have to resort to using fold downs?


Greg

 

I think it was more a question of Capitol's not asking for them than anything else.

 

He was just conveying what Capitol has passed along to him which clearly they are saying that the replacements are just for VI & RS. They probably don't see enough difference in TEB & Help!, so I don't think they are replacing those. You never know though.

 

I would be buying the set on April 11th, and take a chance, if these are the fold-downs, then I'm gonna hang on to it, then purchase the brand new ones. I'm sure there will be a different catalog number or a sticker or something that differentiates, otherwise, that would be really stupid.

I'm positive that the exchange program will be mail order, and you can bet that there will be shipping costs involved.

 

Heeeeere's the latest:

http://abbeyrd.best.vwh.net/news/304capitolvolume2.html

 

Unless Capitol does a total recall of the "bad" sets, what it should do is place a small sticker (a star, asterisk, smiley face, whatever) on the cover of the "good" editions and, in a press release subsequent to the one it's already issued, note that the "good" editions can be identified by the presence of the small sticker. Those who care about whether they're getting new fold-downs or 1965 fold-downs would know what that sticker meant because they would be the kind of people that read this forum or take the trouble to read Capitol's press releases. Those who don't care probably would be equally and obliviously happy with either the "bad" set or the "correct" set.

 

In my opinion Ted Jensen has made these sound better than the original vinyl (and I'm a huge vinyl fan)!

 

Steve started a thread in November 2004 about listening to the first set. Yes, he mentions the problems with the Capitol "masters" but does say:

It's worth another look:
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=43006

 

Capitol Canada and Vee Jay had the dedicated mono "Please Please Me" mixes, don't know why Capitol USA didn't!

 

For the properly matted "Back To The Future" DVDs the defective run had a red and white sticker and the fixed run had a green and white sticker, and said "remastered" on it.

 

If that's the case, then it would necessitate new fold-downs for TEB and Help!, right ? Hence it would answer the question raised in the previous thread whether all four discs need to be fixed. Has anyone confirmed this yet ?

 

John, if you're going to play the "Steve card" at least try and quote him properly in the correct context - he said it would be pointless if the wrong tapes were used. He didn't say anything at all about the "concept being pointless from the get-go"



http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showpost.php?p=1701958&postcount=682

 

I'm also curious as to whether new fold-downs were created for the fold-down tracks that appeared on Vol. 1 or if vintage fold-downs were used. I'm assuming that someone would have discovered this long ago had it been the case, but I'm too lazy to go to the trouble of converting the stereo mixes and fold-downs into .wav files and seeing if they sync up.

 

The press statement said difference in sound quality, not content. I think everyone is missing Capitol's point. Capitol wanted people to know that the discs will sound OK, similar in sound quality to the replacement discs.

I would bet that most people who buy the set won't recognize the problem. They would recognize a problem if the pressing was faulty and/or the sound quality was bad.

Thanks Wollensack for the news, and for starting off a great week here at the Forum!

 

OK. Having monitored this thread since those first breathless moments last week, let me see if i get this right:
1. In the 60s, Capitol released versions of the Beatles' albums in the U.S. that intentionally bastardized the original vision of the group and George Martin in several ways:
a. It put less tracks on each album, most noticably, the Help album, including half what British buyers got and padding it with crap incidential Ken Thorne (!) instrumentals, thus forcing us to buy more albums to get the music.
b. Unlike the British releases, that were taken from the master tapes, the US counterparts were at least a generation removed.
c. Capital executives like Dave Dexter further saw fit to overlay effects, such as echo, on the tapes to make them more "exciting" for U.S. consumers.
d. Unlike the meticulously mixed mono versions that British consumers received, U.S. albums like Beatles VI and Help had only fold-downs from the stereo tapes.
Now, on the eve of the releae of the hotly-anticipated second box set of "U.S." CDs, everyone is in a tizzy becasue the mono mixes of two of the albums are not true to the admittedly truncated, sonically inferior versions foisted on us in the '60s. All the while, the pristine, correct tapes of each unadulterated and complete album sit undisturbed in London.
I'm all for nostalgia and, if you have fond memories of listening to In the Tyrol in 1965 on your Sears stereomatic in your bedroom, more power to you, but, I don't get it.

 

Well, I'm not so sure about that. Mal made the point crystal clear. His post came soon after the one you're quoting:

 

Indeed - thanks Wollensack! At least you can't say now that no-one on the Steve Hoffman Forums pays attention to your posts!

I'm happy that Capitol is releasing the correct mixes. Let's hope that most of us who do care about such things get the proper mixes when we pick them up on Tuesday and beyond.

I have to wonder if this set would ever have been realized, had one decision back in the mid-'80s been different. That would be the original decision to release the first four Beatles UK CD's in mono. I do not wish to start a debate on the merits of mono versus stereo on these recordings - I think we all have been through enough of that over the years. But I'm thinking more of average American Joe consumer back in 1987, a Beatles fan, proud of his new CD player, eager to get his hands on some music he likes in the new digital format - and being so thoroughly disappointed in two things.

One, that these new CD's were in mono. To him, that felt like a downgrade from what he had access to on his turntable. He *liked* the wide stereo. To him it was a sign that his two speakers were working properly.

Two, that the new CD's had strange and different track listings than what he was used to (UK running order). I think that this became more of a factor towards the middling releases like RUBBER SOUL that had wide popularity as "albums", but in general, this Joe consumer was wondering whatever happened to his BEATLES '65 album or SECOND ALBUM that he liked so much. Basically, he was thrust into the unfamiliar territory of how the Beatles/George Martin originally conceived their albums - a fact he wasn't even aware of.

So here he is, listening to these new discs, trying to enjoy them, but he just can't get into the mono sound, and the order of the songs seems wrong to him. He goes back and plays his old THE EARLY BEATLES album and notices how much more enjoyment he gets out of songs like "Please, Please Me" and "Twist And Shout" on the stereo vinyl. He then files away his CDs when the next big thing comes along and somewhere in the back of his mind, files away the thought that "something else needs to be done to these old Beatles tracks to make them better on CD".

My point here is: I wonder if that original "in mono only" decision back in the '80s had not been made, that our Joe Consumer would have at least been happier with the "sound" of his stereo CDs and not been yearning for "something else" all these years. The track order is, in my opinion, the lesser of the two factors in his overall enjoyment of the discs, and easier to get used to. This being the case, there might not have been as much impetus for Capitol to have issued their original albums on CD. The sets, as conceived today, would have had a lot less impact on Joe Consumer, who wouldn't have still been yearning for that "Twist And Shout" song in stereo after all these years. The concept of the additional mono mixes would truly have been lost on him.

All of this "supposing" is meaningless to some of the hardcore fans who - know and love the nuances of the different mixes - enjoy the punch of a good mono track - seek out the best vinyl pressings for slight variations in the sound. But I'll bet that a good majority of the general population would fall into the Joe Consumer category.

Personally, after years of waiting for the stereo tracks to be released, I found a lot of pure "fun" listening to some of the different mono tracks on the Volume 1 set that I'd not heard before.

Just some thoughts, from a guy who's not as up on those nuances of the Beatles catalog, but who appreciates them, nonetheless. And I *am* eager to finally hear "Twist And Shout" and "Please, Please Me" in stereo.

Harry
...looking forward to the new box set, online...

 

Two words: historical accuracy. That's the premise of the entire project. That's why some people don't want to see new fold-downs used on Volume 2. This argument applies even for the 1965 fold-downs of duophonic mixes ("Ticket To Ride," for instance). That's why Capitol will fix the problem. Historical accuracy.

 

I can think of two other words: maximize profits.

 

I didnt take their statement as meaning that theres no difference between the fold down and the original mono, but more that the sound quality i.e the mastering etc was equally as good in either case and that you wouldnt be able to hear a noticeable difference in the sound quality. Those who recognise the original mono would certainly notice that - but even Wollensack who originally alerted us to the problem didnt say that the sound quality of the discs was bad, just that the wrong mixes were used. I take those as being two separate issues and I think thats what Capital intended to explain in their statement. No need to go assuming an insult to audiophiles where most likely none was intended
Cheers

Steve

Edit: Oops.. I see this has already been covered by Mal. That will teach me to reply to a post in a long thread without reading all the way through first!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capitol Records
Some of the mono tracks from the initial manufacturing run of "The Beatles: The Capitol Albums Vol. 2" were not the original mono masters that were intended to be included on this historic re-release.

Same here: that's a specific, qualifying wording in their statement. As far as I'm concerned the mono tracks on those first 2 CDs are just as important as the later ones.

 

I guess Capitol wasn't counting on anyone synching up wav files of the digital stereo and mono Help! and TEB. What a mess, though I'd bet most listeners wouldn't notice or care. Maybe not 99%, but we here at SHtv are in the minority on such things, I think.

 

If you are correct, A.S., there are no Capitol master tapes to be faithful to, for the two mono LPs in question, and therefore no point in conversing about being faithful to these non-existent tapes. I'm at work, can't get at my notebooks, and was never a big student of the Capitol releases to start with.

Can anybody else here confirm that no Capitol master tapes of the mono folddowns of "TEB" and "Help!" exist? This seems to be the important part of the question in my humble opinion.

Cheers,
Doug Piero Carey

(added the word exist)

 

Although right now it hasn't been decided if there were, in fact, actual tape masters of the 1965 mono fold-downs, if that is true, this raises some other issues.

If there were no tapes of the 1965 TEB and HELP mono fold-downs, then Capitol would have to have created new ones, in 2006, in order to release TEB and HELP in mono.

And assuming that is true then, is it possible that Capitol thought all 4 albums needed to be mastered that way?

Which leads us to the punch line here, is it possible Capitol didn't even realize that the original 1965 mono RS and VI WAS a unique mix and not just a contemporary fold down of the stereo?

I'm still trying to conceive how the "mistake" was made, and blaming the third-party mastering house doesn't sit right with me.....

 

Where was it said, that the "Early Beatles" and "Help!" were newly created mono fold-downs? I've looked and I can't find it. Or are we just assuming they're newly created?

The problem seems to be with "Beatles VI" and "Rubber Soul." Capitol is going to corrceted it, so...