Sinatra / Capitol Sound Quality and General Discussion - "No One Cares" (1959 LP)*

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MLutthans, Mar 27, 2010.

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  1. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    From my website, for what it's worth, with spiffy new bold print:

    "When I assembled a small cadre of 'blind listeners' to compare nine different stereo masterings of three full-length tracks, without knowing in advance what was what, relatively little came from the exercise, but it was not totally without results. One listener commented that there just wasn’t much difference between them. One preferred what turned out to be the 2013 MFSL Hybrid (SACD/CD) disc. One listener leaned toward three favorites: MFSL hybrid disc, the 1983 MFSL LP (from the 16-LP box), and the 1984 UK “Dell” LP. Personally, I chose, in blind listening, the MFSL CD, the UK “Dell” LP, the 1983 MFSL LP, and, to my own surprise, the c. 1980 purple label LP from Holland, as the best-sounding releases, and did so consistently on all three songs we compared. (The preference I showed in blind listening for that purple-label Holland pressing demonstrates why I like blind listening: Less influence from bias or prejudice.)

    I was surprised that the 2012 MFSL LP did not stand out as a top-tier choice, especially since the SACD/CD scored so well."

    Whatever fairy dust Rob LoVerde sprinkled on that SACD mastering, it was just about perfect to my ears. Same with the 1983 MFSL LP from the box (cut by Jack Hunt) and the 1984 UK LP, to my ears, while lots of other versions strike me as at least "very good."
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2021
    MLutthans, Mar 13, 2021
    #276
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  2. zoltantamas

    zoltantamas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    Paul, I totally agree with you. We have a saying here where I come from, to translate it word-for-word: 100 persons, 100 tastes.
    Mentioning the Dino's issue by MFSL, it is spectacular, the cover is beautifully detailed. The Swing along with me issue is ordered for a few months (together with the Concert Sinatra).... I am afraid it got lost somewhere by the shipping company, so I guess I will need to order it again somewhere... and have that much money. But when I'll have it, I will definitely review it too.

    And also I give all the possible positive reactions to Impex, they are doing great reissues, with superb QC, for a great price. I wish there was more from FS by Impex.
     
    zoltantamas, Mar 14, 2021
    #277
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  3. zoltantamas

    zoltantamas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    Funny thing happened. As I was mentioning my lost package with MFSL issues of SAWM and TCS yesterday, that it is lost... well it has arrived today :D I was blessed, because they arrived in superb condition. What was the problem? Well regarding to the shipping box, it was missent to Canada, instead of Europe :D but it is here, after 3 months!
     
    zoltantamas, Mar 15, 2021
    #278
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  4. Jack White

    Jack White Senior Member

    Location:
    Canada
    Is the abbreviation for Slovakia 'SK'? If so, your package was probably sent to Saskatchewan - abbreviation 'SK'.

    Google Maps
     
    Jack White, Mar 15, 2021
    #279
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  5. zoltantamas

    zoltantamas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    It is SK indeed. Fortunately they realized that they made a mistake. But still it is weird, because on the package there was no mention of "SK", and everything, including the ZIP code was written correctly...
     
    zoltantamas, Mar 15, 2021
    #280
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  6. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    Interesting discussion.

    My 2012 MFSL LP has a cover that is so sharp it almost looks like a new picture. And it sounds amazing.

    I have at least 4 versions including the Silver Box, Dell, and a Capitol repress with a green label (not sure about the color, would have to check this). And the MFSL SACD.

    My favorite in order:

    2012 MFSL LP
    2013 MFSL SACD
    Silver Box MFSL
    Dell
    Capitol Repress

    I actually bought 2nd copies of the MFSL 2012 LP and 2013 SACD just in case.....crazy I know......

    When the post 2010 FS LPs were being released was the best time on this forum. Ever since....oh well.
     
    teag, Mar 15, 2021
    #281
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  7. zoltantamas

    zoltantamas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    Does your copy really look like that? I am shocked, that there may be more than one version of the front cover itself. Mine is very pixelated, not sharp. I am attaching a picture. On the left is the MFSL issue, on the right is the 1965 Capitol reissue (I don't have the original). While my curtain does not allow me to take a picture without any kind of red, that is not supposed to be there, it is clearly visible that the Capitol lady is sharper, than the MFSL lady.
    [​IMG]

    Also just to mention the 1983 MFSL - it looks like they got a regular issue from 1959 and then they simpy scanned it and printed them with the OMR banner.
     
    zoltantamas, Mar 16, 2021
    #282
  8. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    ALL the covers/jackets in the Silver Box suck, quite frankly. Been there discussed it before....Bad job.
     
    paulmock, Mar 16, 2021
    #283
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  9. teag

    teag Forum Resident

    Location:
    Colorado
    My 2012 MFSL cover does not have the red tone of the picture you show on the right. However, the part of the picture with Frank at the bar is very clear, and thats the part I was referring to. The sound is great. Of the LP, not the cover!

    I agree with Paul on the Silver box cover pictures. However, every cover also includes a list of recording dates and a song by song breakdown of all the players including orchestra names. So they are useful in that sense.
     
    teag, Mar 16, 2021
    #284
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  10. zoltantamas

    zoltantamas Forum Resident

    Location:
    Slovakia
    As written above: While my curtain does not allow me to take a picture without any kind of red, that is not supposed to be there,...

    Yes, I agree, that the huge amount of information in the Box set is quite useful and nice
     
    zoltantamas, Mar 16, 2021
    #285
  11. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    True...true. But there are better resources for the sessions using exact dates and what was recorded on which date. Plus, IIRC there are inaccuracies in some of the personnel listings. Ric Ross was the main source for those album covers and info. Remember that in the early 80's most of Mr. S's Capitol albums were long out of print except for a few truncated reissues released in the late 70's (yellow label). But, unless you are a real "stickler" for having all the session info, what is presented in the bi-fold sleeves of the Box is very good.

    And as @MLutthans mentioned earlier, as I am now 1/2 way thru my sequential listening of the set, each and every record has a most incredibly quiet playing surface. Plus it's neat to hold them up to the light and see right thru them! :agree:
     
    paulmock, Mar 16, 2021
    #286
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  12. Celebrated Summer

    Celebrated Summer Forum Resident

    Location:
    USA
    Yeah, his arrangements on the Where Did Everyone Go? album are absolutely killer. Wonder if Frank instructed him to keep it darker and less ornate for his own albums. My guess is that No One Cares sounds the way it does by design.
     
    Celebrated Summer, Mar 16, 2021
    #287
  13. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    How big of a deal is the blather below? Not very big, and I want to refrain from overblowing this. I just wish to post some information, and share my take on this LP that recently came into my home. This is NOT a "run out and buy a new copy" situation -- unless you really want to! :). (There are some definite obsessives out there. Ha!)RegardingMFSL SACD Hybrid disc:
    I posted those quoted comments above (and others like them) eight years ago, and I still have not been as impressed by any other version -- digital of vinyl -- as that MFSL hybrid disc. To my ears, it's perfect. I think that a few releases (the 1983 MFSL LP, the 1984 UK LP) came very close. I won't say "close, but no cigar," because they (and some others) sound terrific, but maybe I'll say, "close....but not quite as perfect a cigar."

    I have finally (and surprisingly, considering the source) come across an LP that, to my ears (YMMV, of course) is the tonal equal of that MFSL SACD, with a marked similarity in the all-important VOCAL TONE department, and which actually has slightly wider measured dynamic range (0.3 dB difference -- you'll never catch it by ear), and it's this 1984 Japanese pressing:

    R-4514382-1537430413-7109.jpeg.jpg R-4514382-1503371764-5636.jpeg-2.jpg
    I have to mention the sticky wicket of "bonus tracks." In the "purist's sense," if you are going to experience "No One Cares" to (painful) perfection, you should be able to play it straight through (unless you are @paulmock , in which case you probably skip Stormy Weather), and if you look at the label above, you will see that there is a bonus track -- albeit an excellent one -- as track #5 on side two. I guess that's another reason to just get the the SACD! :love: That said, if you are devoted to Sinatra on LP (specifically), and you are not bothered by having a bonus track thrown on to side two, I really think this is the best you will hear this album on vinyl. (Again, those other LPs that I mentioned above are absolutely, beautifully excellent!! I am exceedingly happy with them! This one just has that little extra half-ounce of "secret sauce" in the vocal tone that makes it right in-line, tonally, with the MFSL SACD, a disc that still strikes me as being tonally perfect.

    These ECJ-xxxxx releases from Japan are such a mixed bag! Come Dance with Me, for instance, is a total dog of an LP, sonically. This No One Cares LP does not fall into that category!

    Here is a collage of clips for the curious: ECJ LP_01.wav. (All clips fall within the Amazon/iTunes "free clip" window.)

    Nothing earth-shattering, but I think as far as LPs go, it bests the previous bests by a small margin, but especially where vocal tone is concerned. I'll still take the MFSL SACD any day of the week, but this is (bonus track aside) a definite "top vinyl choice."

    IEiVC-1455725764-72-quiz_question_image_-mashpilot_speaker.png
    "That is all!":pineapple:
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2021
    MLutthans, Sep 20, 2021
    #288
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  14. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    GREAT READ and catch! IMHO I think the addition of "The One I Love..." is perfect as it was a part of the sessions and a great reading. (Is it the "hands I hold" or "the hands I HELD" take?) And, where did you get the impression that I do not like his rendition of "Just Friends"? If I ever posted that I disliked it, I must have been drunk!!!!
     
    paulmock, Sep 20, 2021
    #289
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Hi, Paul!

    1. I don't recall you not liking "Just Friends."
    2. It's the "hold" version -- and that's a good thing!
     
    MLutthans, Sep 20, 2021
    #290
  16. paulmock

    paulmock Forum Resident

    Location:
    Hollywood, CA
    OK maybe I am misreading your post. But ALL GOOD. And agree on the preferred take.:)​
     
    paulmock, Sep 20, 2021
    #291
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  17. rangerjohn

    rangerjohn Forum Resident

    Location:
    chicago, il
    Wonderful find and excellent post, indeed, Matt! Thanks so much for sharing.
     
    rangerjohn, Sep 20, 2021
    #292
    MLutthans likes this.
  18. CBackley

    CBackley Chairman of the Bored

    Why Try to Chance Me Now?

    An alternate take? :)
     
    CBackley, Sep 21, 2021
    #293
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff Thread Starter

    Location:
    Marysville, WA, Salina, KS, Los Angeles, CA
    Good eye! I missed that. (Misprint on the side two label.)
     
    MLutthans, Sep 21, 2021
    #294
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  20. roda12

    roda12 WATERTOWN FOREVER

    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Gush Kahn
     
    roda12, Sep 21, 2021
    #295
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