Sinatra / Capitol 180g LPs: Wee Small Hours, Come Fly with Me, Come Dance with Me*

Some general rules for Capitol era Sinatra lovers!

If it's Gray, it's good!
Logo on side, it is usually good!
Logo on top, avoid!
Duophonic or missing songs, avoid!

True Stereo albums are OK in either Side logo or Top logo.

 

The re-issues from the late 1970s and early '80s, "Mastered By Capitol", sound very good. Some, but not all, of them have missing tracks or have the tracklists altered from the original albums. It has been my experience that Grey labels and the 9 o'clock Capitol labels are difficult to find in decent shape and scarce (could just be my geographical location), and when you do find them are expensive. (Unfortunately, this hasn't stopped me from purchasing them.) The "Mastered By Capitol" re-issues are actually good value for the money (IMO) and can usually be had for a relatively decent price. I'm at work right now, but tonight will post which "Mastered By Capitol" re-issues are missing tracks and which ones have their tracklists left intact.

 

The stereo titles I've heard for those 70s reissues are okay (and mostly intact track-wise), but most of the mono ones I've heard seemed to be sourced from Duophonic tapes. But even if they used the right tapes in a few cases, they're still truncated versions of albums that had no fat to trim.

I agree that good monos (gray labels, 9 o'clock rainbows) are tough to find in good condition. It's hard to find any records from the 50s in good condition. I imagine most of these records got many plays on what would today be considered sub-par equipment. Even when you find one that looks clean there is often significant groove damage. It's what makes collecting Sinatra on vinyl so frustrating. Don't even get me started on the CDs.

 

How true.

 

Yeah, that wasn't one of the ones I had. I picked up a bunch for 25 cents each: Songs For Swingin' Lovers and A Swingin' Affair were both definitely duophonic. Come Fly With Me was true stereo, but didn't sound very good either. No One Cares and a couple other later Capitols sounded okay. I didn't realize the mono ones were truncated, or fake stereo until I got them home.

Hopefully Capitol did a good job with these recent reissues and made the job of finding decent sounding, complete, versions of these albums a lot easier.

 

If I am understanding correctly: even if they were in true mono, they would still be sourced from the re-equalized dubs from the 1960s. Am I right to assume that the only post-1960 Sinatra releases ever to take advantage of the 'original tapes' are MoFi's 'Only The Lonely' and Larry Walsh's 'The Capitol Years'? If so, it would be interesting if the new release has really been sourced from the masters which have been used for the 10" pressing - or subsequent dubs. Perhaps a first indicator to find this out would be to ask whether the other two albums released in this batch have been sourced from mono masters or the respective stereo re-mixes...

 

"Classic Sinatra II" sounds like it was sourced correctly, as does MoFi's "Nice And Easy".

 

Good point. "I Get Along Without You Very Well" sounds nice and dry on there, and that's a 2009 release, so maybe this reissue uses the same transfers?

 

Many thanks for mentioning the releases I've missed in my posting. I guess I'll have to get "Classic Sinatra II" then. The real stunner on that disk is the mono 'Moonlight in Vermont', though.

From what I've read on this forum, 'A Jolly Christmas' and 'Close To You' should be OK? Does this also apply for the CTY bonus tracks on 'The Rare Sinatra'?

The situation for 'Songs For Young Lovers' and 'Swing Easy' should be even worse, because all post-10" pressings have been sourced from altered tapes.

 

I picked up the 180 gram 'Wee Small...' today.

It's not the Norberg mastering.
It's mono with no added reverb or stereoizing that I can detect.

However, when folding to mono, the hiss collapses in a bit, as though the tape was played on a stereo machine?

The vinyl has a number of ticks and pops.

I give it a B-.

But further listening may change my intial percerption.

 

That collapsing hiss wouldn't just be residual vinyl background would it? I know with mono LPs on my rig whenever I fold down the background noise level goes down. You`re basically removing the out of phase feed that's coming from a stereo stylus. Even if it`s not moving vertically, it's still not completely silent.

 

I don't think so.

But scrolling back it doesn't look like anyone's put up a sample.

I'll have one up within the hour...

 

They do.

http://www.capitolmastering.com/index.cfm?page=vinyl

 

i sent Matt Graber an email at Capitol. Dont know if ill hear back. Guessing the info i want probably isnt something they just blurt out to anyone. worth a try i guess.

 

Here's a clip from the new 180 gram 'Wee...'

Rather noisy, I intend to clean it on the Nitty Gritty when I order some replacement velvet pads, until then...

http://www.box.net/shared/enst5oq373

 

Thanks. It's definitely got reverb not on the original. Here is the same section from the "dry" black label version:

https://rcpt.yousendit.com/773192620/a4dae16a76fbc9b2cffbe21012d32f49

They didn't get it right.

 

Thanks for the clip, Greg.

Agree, wrong tapes. Poor Frank...

"What Is This Thing Called Love" clip, from THE CAPITOL YEARS 3 CD set :

http://www.4shared.com/file/149263851/6129154/What_Is_This_Thing_TCY_clip.html

 

oh well. thats that. thanks for the clip.

 

I'm not entirely depressed.

For all all I knew, when I was plunking down my 20 bucks today, I was going to get home and find that they had copied the Norberg mastering to vinyl.

Yes there is some reverb added that I didn't notice on a cursory listen (my bad.)
But all in all, apart from the arguments pertaining to the un-futzed mono master as some pop music Rosetta Stone, I think I that this is better than the Walsh CD.
So, IMO, Capitol has at least mounted one more rung on the sonic ladder with a new full length version of this album (that's just to offer some kind of positive perspective.)

The noise is another matter, way too much for a brand new new record.
Hopefully a cleaning will clear some of it up.

 

the best hope is to keep buying the originals used and hope one is clean..

Just finished listening to King Cole Trio's 10" LP (the first one from 1950)..wonderful sound..

 

Ah cool if that description is as it seems (and I read it right). Wonder when they returned to actual analog. Should be smiling to read "return of high fidelity" but are you finding it as hard as I am to get excited about that page after the way they've been these past decades?

Yeah. They've owned the rights, they've owned the source material, they've owned the gear all along... geez.

Yes that's a good way to look at it. Not what their LPs and CDs should have been all along but as I was hoping, better than their CDs.

Bit of a "too little too late" for a lot of folks though.

What am I missing that I can't hear / grab any audio? I just see your text and the (neat) pic.

Delightful stuff isn't it?