Second Genesis 2007 remasters (1983-1998 box): A Visible Touch

Yeah with our own volume control sure

 

WTF is going with Tonight, Tonight, Tonight? I know it has been said, but what the HELL is that weird slapback that doesn't even sound in sync? Is that supposed to be some cool new modern effect/remixing idea? Dear lord! The loudness is always offensive but the slappy weirdness is just horrifying! I've listened to this clip like 10 times now because I still can't get over what has been done to the track. I like the Invisible Touch album, though I like Phil's solo albums which it pretty much sounds like. Anyway, I'll say it again, WTF WAS GOING ON IN THE MIXING ROOM???? AGHHHH!! *runs for the hills*

Am I overreacting?

 

I would say no. I hope others will as well....

 

OK, it's time to look at some exact figures.
I've compared the second half of the "Home By The Sea" track (my favorite bit).

Note: For all the following results, this "Remaster 2007" sound piece (1:45 long)
http://rapidshare.com/files/59716410/HomeByTheSea2_remaster.wav (18 MB)
was compared with this Original CD sound piece
http://rapidshare.com/files/59717011/HomeByTheSea2_original.wav (18 MB)

Observations:
The remaster is roughly 3.8 dB "louder" (-11.9 dB vs. -15.7 dB Avg. RMS).
The shape of the histogram does not really look much different (except that the remaster is "louder") so a really bad over-use (over-"abuse") of compression is not really an issue, IMO.

Now to the EQes. If you've got the original 1983 Genesis self-titled CD,
Here's how to do "The 2007 Remaster EQ" yourself:

-1 dB @ 125 Hz (that's kind of weird, but maybe it's only on this track)
+1 dB @ 500 Hz
-0.5 dB @ 2 kHz
-1 dB @ 4 kHz
+2 dB @ 8 kHz (steep slope, looks like a "spike")
+4 dB @ 11 kHz (steep slope, looks like a "spike")
+2 dB @ 12 kHz
+0.5 dB @ 13 kHz
+3 dB @ 15 kHz
+4 dB @ 17 kHz
+4.5 dB @ 19 kHz

Wow!!! What a EQ!!???
Here we go again, scooped mids and the highs blown like .... I've seen that before... Is it to please the aging group fans over 40 or so with some severe hearing loss?

The EQ should likely make up for the fact that after 30 or so most people no longer hear the frequencies over 15-16 kHz very well. That's where the "Remasters" come into play. So here we are. Expect to read more raving customer reviews on amazon.com "The sound quality of this disc is amazing!!! I can hear everything like it sounded 20 years ago". This is just a theory of mine, why they keep on doing the EQs like that every freaking time...

I am definitely keeping my original CDs.

 

I wish I was capable of taking a simplistic view of it like that. I can't. I envy you.

 

May be it's only me, but what really annoys me on the "remasters" each time I listen is that although Phil's voice has been re-mixed more "up in your face", it has also been made more "dull" sounding at the same time.
As a result, the vocal is now more "buried in the mix" (be it due to the mid range suck out or whatever), even if it's "louder" by dB. It doesn't sound right at all (to me).
On the original CD the voice is not as loud but is nevertheless more prominent in the mix. The voice tonality is totally different. I like the original tonality much better! So I *think* it is not only the wrong echoes (which is obviously true, too), but *also* the wrong voice EQ they chose for remixing.

On these two bits you can hear a lot of Phil's vocal to compare between the versions and, hopefully, see my point.
2007 Remaster: http://rapidshare.com/files/59716410/HomeByTheSea2_remaster.wav
Original mix: http://rapidshare.com/files/59717011/HomeByTheSea2_original.wav

Does anybody feel the same way about it? Or is it only me being picky?

 

Yes, I find his voice to be very "grainy" on the remixes. In your face is being kind. More like a punch in the nose!

 

Okay let me ask you guys something...

Genesis CDs exist which sound great to you. You have them. You don't like these new discs. Why do you guys complain incessantly about them? You act like they're the only CDs you have to listen to. I can understand having a complaint about taking the original mixes out of print, yes. I have that same complaint. But complaining about the sound quality and forcing yourself to listen to them? Why? Life's too short. Go listen to the versions you prefer and stop wasting your time with stuff you don't like.

That said, using visual and mathematical representation of sound to determine what sounds good is absolutely ridiculous. There's only one thing in this world that can tell you whether or not something sounds good...your ears. If you like it, great. If you don't, then listen to stuff you DO like and quit wasting your time.

 

Someone has posted these for our consideration. I am offering an opinion. I've been listening to music for almost 40 years and have a pretty good idea of what sounds right to me. The remixes don't. Last time I looked, this was a forum where opinions were expressed. Would you like me to shut up and smlie and pretend that the world is a big happy face? As I said earlier, I wish I could listen to them and say "gee golly willekers, they sound keen! I dig them!". But I can't! I have a critical ear. It's a blessing and a curse. What more can I say. If you like them, strip down, cover yourself in olive oil and dance the night away, what do I care. But if someone is going to ask for an opinion, I will offer one. Don't like it? Put me on your ignore list.

 

Don't construe my comments as a personal attack because they weren't intended as such. A critical ear is definitely a blessing and a curse. I guess maybe I should just stop trying to understand how someone can put on a CD and hear the engineering and mastering instead of, or even in addition to, the actual musical performance. I just don't get it and I'm starting to think I never will. For me, when I put on an album, the only thing I'm listening to are elements of the performance.

I guess at this point I should tell you to keep in mind that I can thoroughly enjoy 18th generation Grateful Dead bootlegs to the exact same extent that I could a shimmeringly beautiful soundboard recording.

Ah well, different strokes right?

Just don't think I was attacking you.

 

Steve told a story about a guy that could hear a directional cable that was put on in the wrong direction. Every time they tried to trick him, he knew it was on the wrong way. Can't explain why some of us hear minutia and some don't. It just happens.

Sorry I ranted. Traffic can do that to you!

 

Please tell me you are not driving.

 

can' be any worse than anyone else on the 401 this morning

Thanks for the OP and the other tidbits in this thread. I bought (and sold) the first box. Will not be getting any of this set.

 

I have to ask .. as its sometimes painful to read these threads ... if you know you are buying a horrible remaster/remix why bother wasting your money on it? You know beforehand its going to be a compressed shrilly mess ... so avoid it !!!

Besides ... buying this junk only gives more fuel to the record companies who keep releasing crappy recycled/remixed/remastered product. Support the good stuff (Pretenders for example) and leave out the dreck.

Well, its just my opinion.

 

Yesterday I heard the Genesis 2007 remasters for the first time. I was completely unbiased and did not know what I was getting when I ordered the set. I was hoping for a good sounding SACD set. I really tried to like the remasters and did not make any assesements and listened one day to the CDs/SACDs to decide whether I like them or not.
Wasn't it you, by the way, who asked me in another thread to post a report? http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=119705&page=10
Is it required to rave about something when sharing information, otherwise just shut up?

Sure, it is also possible to make a record without using level meters. Using visual representation of signal levels is ridiculous, right? Your ears can tell you everything! Why do the recording studios and engineers preffer to use all those worthless visual "gadgets" and tools for checking the levels anyway?

 

I agree. If it doesn't sound distorted, it's good enough for most people.

 

As I read this exchange, I am reminded of my mother (a RN) telling me that there are doctors who practice medicine by just looking at the numbers of lab tests and forget the human approach of talking with and listening to their patients. The numbers/technology are not enough in and of themselves.

Use all the tools available to you. The technological tools and human tools. In combination, you will arrive at something approximating the truth. Of course, realizing there are also personal preferences to be considered when it comes to music listening.

 

I like that theory.

 

Judging by the chart I'd say the plug needs to be pulled on this patient.

 

You suggest we try to talk with those SACDs!? Will they sound better after that? Just kidding...

See your point, but sometimes a picture just says more than thousand words.
(especially if they are audiophile buzzwords)

 

Will there even be a Rhino release and if so when???

 

Don't think that this should have surprised anyone with the way the industry is at the moment.