My favorite. Bod Ludwig did awesome. I also wish they were able to mimic ABKCO for once & only and did hybrid SACDs around the same time for Sticky up to Bridges. Especially at that time, because I didn't even have an SACD player in 2002 and those blew me away.
I like the Virgins although the only ones I've compared them with are the CBS Sticky Fingers, Exile On Main Street and Some Girls. For Exile I thought both sounded good but for the other 2 I clearly preferred the Virgins. I don't have Goats Head Soup on Virgin as my CBS of that sounds good. I would like to hear a CBS Black and Blue. The Virgin sounds OK but my vinyl is the go to for that one. I have not heard the SHMs.
For me Virgin CDs are in the 'mixed emotions' zone. First, they are loud, with digital edge, and limiter was used too often. Most of the tracks are clipped and for many the loudest peaks are 'shaved'. Like this: the upper pair is CBS CD, the bottom - Virgin CD. Song is Emotional Rescue, the same spot. The situation is like that for the whole set of the albums from Sticky Fingers to Steel Wheels. Second, not all represent a new tape transfer. Emotional Rescue, Undercover, Dirty Work, Steel Wheels, Some Girls (but two tracks - Respectable and Shattered) are a kind of louder clones of CBS discs. They stay in perfect sync with CBS CDs and share the same EQ profiles (almost all the time). But they are louder and more compressed. Two tracks from Some Girls mentioned above are newly transferred and mastered differently. For the rest just limiting and cosmetic equalization was applied (like de-essing for Miss You). If you you'll perform a null test for Beast Of Burden (CBS vs. Virgin) after level corrections (Replay gain) you'll get almost perfect cancellation, except for the loudest peaks that were shaved on Virgin CD. Goats Head Soup, apparently, originated from CBS tape transfer too, is louder and equalized differently, but in perfect sync. I Got The Blues from Stick Fingers also from CBS tape transfer, while the rest of the album is new. So, you know, that “Remastered using UV22 Super CD Encoding by Apogee Electronics, Santa Monica, California. Apogee UV22 is a unique new process capturing all the fine details of the original analogue master on standard audio equipment.” blurb might be applicable to Sticky Fingers (but one track), EOMS, IORR, Black And Blue, and two tracks from Some Girls. The rest seem to be louder versions of CBS CDs + some kind of clipping/limiting or something like that
Exactly. Not audiophile level by any means but decent otherwise. Ideal for car listening, yes. And the SHM of "Some Girls" is a farce. The Virgin and CBS are the only options for that one.
-These days I can't even go much into Kinks and Beatles threads, so busy... But yeah, I love the Stones and some other artists too. -I get your point about the US Aftermath. And Paint It Black is my favourite Stones song. But the UK version works better for me. They should have put Going Home at the end of side two, I'll give you that. -I don't have that ABKCO US version, I don't know how it sounds. I have the US version via a 2006 Japanese mini LP which uses the 2002 remasters.
I am wondering if you can expand on this a bit. My SHM Platinum CD had a booklet that says this was done at FX Copyroom using the UK analogue master tapes in 2011. Apparently, it is supposed to be the same master as what was used on the SHM-SACD. But I have read here that it is compressed and not a flat transfer. I have seen where others liked the CBS CD better on this one and others. Maybe my hearing is just not as good, but I didn't find anything necessarily wrong with it. Then again, having not heard the CBS maybe I just don't have a frame of reference. The only other version I own is my 1978 vinyl copy. I sold off most my SHM Platinum CDs for about $60-80/ea a few years back and stayed with the Virgins.
Glad to see some praise for 1985 West Germay CD of Aftermath. Personally, I'm a big fan of Brian Jones era Stones, and consider this their best record from that era. I suppose many do. I like the UK track listing, but it's what I'm used to. There was nothing wrong with the 2002 ABKO. I just like the album so much I thought it was worth acquiring the '85 German disc. In my experience, CD is the way to go for the Stones. For 70's you have the Virgin CDs. 60's the 2002 ABKOs. Both of these can be had for cheap. For LP the best pressings seem to be difficult to obtain for a good price. I have a German Artisan of Exile on vinyl that sounds very good indeed. However, the Virgin CD rivals it, in my opinion. From what I've read about the Stones on vinyl; there doesn't seem to be an absolute consensus of which pressing is the best. People seem to say various.
The SHM SACD/Platinum/Mini LP is messed up. It may have been flat transferred from the tape, but for whatever reason, something was done in the mastering stage that caused shaved peaks, especially on the side 2 tracks. I don't know if you can consider it a "farce" though. It isn't horrible or unlistenable, but it is the one album from this series that I prefer the Virgin over the SHM. I don't care for the CBS, as I think the bass is too muddy. Generally I prefer the Virgins over the CBS.
The one advantage I see to the 1994 Virgin remasters is they sound good, are sonically consistent with the 2002 ABKCO remasters, they're easy to find, and they're affordable. The SHM-SACD/Platinum-CD/HR Cutting discs were ~$40/ea I remember and I don't think you can get most of them anymore.
Yeah you can pick them up for about £5 or less secondhand. In fact I bought a '94 Virgin CD of Exile brand new for about £7. I was thinking about getting the SHM-SACDs. But they are hard to find. The best price is direct from Japan. They are expensive. And the tape speed issue put me off. I know it may be hard to perceive that, but if I'm paying over £30 for a CD I would hope that they could get that right.
Tape speed issue? I understood the only tape speed issue was with "Fingerprint File," which is the correct speed on the 2011 SHM-SACD.
I read that the machine was running at the wrong speed for these SHM-SACDs. I read it somewhere on this forum.
Yes, exactly. Same mastering engineer as the ABKCO's and pretty much the same approach. Makes for easy and consistent playlists.
Sorry, I forgot that there were two different SHM's. I never followed up on the Platinums, but I seem to remember reading here that they just copied the liner notes over regardless of the content? Hopefully someone can chime in. The SACD of "Some Girls" was definitely screwed up. Doesn't match the others, uses a heavily brickwalled version (by mistake?).
I just think the SHM are too expensive for what they are when the Virgins are fine for a fraction of the price.
I always wondered where people hear 'muddy bass' for CBS Some Girls. That album on Virgin (apart of Respectable and Shattered) originated from CBS tape transfer. It is in perfect sync with CBS disc (other than two tracks mentioned above). The equalization profile for all album but a few spots is exactly the same as for CBS. It is just ~2-2.5 dB louder (depending on a track). All those 'flat transfers' originated from the same source. Which means that SHM-platinum and SHM-CD in 2013-2014 and SHM-CD from 2020 shares exactly the same digital material. As a matter of fact, they are pressed from the stamplers prepared from the very same glass master. E.g. UICY-40011 H1T IFPI L236 for SHM-CD platinum [UICY-40011], 2013, SHM-CD [UICY-75886], 2013, and [UICY-79241], 2020. But [UICY-79241K], 2023, that was issued for the whole world is based on 2009 brickwalled remaster.
That is old story Rolling Stones Flat Transfers incorrect Tempo Guess, the question for EOMS was about A=440Hz and A=438Hz
No, that's not correct. It has some compression/peak limiting, primarily on the side 2 tracks, but it is not "heavily brickwalled."
Amplitude-Frequency Chart Beast of Burden CBS vs Virgin Differential Amplitude-Frequency Chart. CBS disc was used as a base line
Some Girls badly needs a true flat transfer. The CBS has peak limiting on every track, leans to the right channel, and IMO is excessively bright (I've never had an issue with the bass personally). On at least one song the Virgin tries to center the stereo image by panning the sound about 15% to the left, but on others it's the same imbalanced stereo. The SHM remaster from the flat transfer series is not a flat transfer at all, and is quite bright with worse peak limiting than the CBS and (depending on the track) Virgin. But the channels are properly balanced and despite the reduced dynamics it is a much better A/D transfer. The flat transfers themselves are most welcome, but naturally the sound is a case-by-case basis. Tattoo You is a good example – "No Use In Crying" sounds splendid, very vivid and engaging, but "Worried About You" is almost nothing but midrange with hardly any bass at all. Exile is all over the map with some songs shrill and others sounding like there's a fur coat covering the speaker. Most of them sound good to very good on their own, but they're a good demonstration of why mastering is so important. On the subject of Virgins, I swore by them for years until I actually compared them to the CBS discs. Half of them are louder clones, and the ones that are actually remastered are not superior. The only one I would recommend is Exile which I think has decent EQ, if a little heavy handed. Sticky Fingers on Virgin sounds like a cassette with Dolby noise reduction applied twice by mistake. The difference between that and the CBS is staggering. Really, the only blanket statement you can make about the post-ABKCO era on CD is that the 2009 remasters are horrible.
