Robert Johnson - "The Complete Recordings" Questions

I just ordered KOTDBS 1and 2 on Columbia Vinyl. The only information i´ve been able to get is that it´s from 2009. I assume and hope that these vinyls are remastered too like the stunning sample here provided. Anyone knows more ???

 

I can't wait to get home and hear the clip. I have the gold disc, but it's still sealed, and not as good as the silver apparently.

 

All the sources are standard discs, a disc recorder was all they had. Quality is not so good as studio recordings.. they went to Johnson, he didn't come to the studio.

The differences are mainly they stopped trying to take the noise out. I had a preamp with multiple filters once, and it made things sound like that if you used them all.

 

Don't bother to unseal the gold disc, it was made obsolete with the standard silver disc reissue with the upgraded sonic transfers that lukpac illustrated. Get your money from a collector who values gold discs as a collectable, regardless of the sonic quality.

 

That's not quite true.

Johnson came to San Antonio's Gunter Hotel for one of his sessions where the record company frequently recorded a variety of artists. If you ever visit that hotel (it's now the Sheraton Gunter), there's a wonderful display in the lobby commemorating the historic Johnson recordings that took place there. Similarly, Johnson's other session was in Dallas, where the record company was set up for sessions with Johnson and a vareity of other artists.

 

Yeah, never had plans to unseal it. I will get those 2 new discs one day.

 

This calls into even more question the 'speed' issues on Johnson's records.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

The original. I've heard the remastered version once or twice, but not in a while. At the time I didn't think it sounded very different at all, but like I said, it has been a while.

Does anyone have the '96 box? If you send me a song or two I could make clips that compare that to the '90 box and the remasters.

 

The remastered "complete" box is significantly different. Some songs are at very different speeds. Some chewed up, basically falsified intros (Love in Vain for example) are totally replaced. At least one of the noisy found bits in the outer grooves is gone. I went into this at great length on an old thread.

But the 2 "King of the Delta Blues Singers" CDs are a vast improvement over the remasters, overall. I think even "Terraplane Blues" may sound more distorted because we are hearing more of the frequency range of the recording. The distortion happens every time he hoots in a loud falsetto.

 

What is the story about the alternate take "discovered" after the "complete" box? I mean, how was it found, etc.? Test pressing? Did the "complete" box smoke it out?

 

I'd like to hear that too!

Is there a write up about the remasters discussing the sources, mastering, and restoration? I'd like to read the whole scoop! Google wasn't helpful.

 

That question was asked just a few weeks ago, and I posted the answer in this thread:

http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=225285&highlight=traveling+riverside

 

Thanks.

 

I haven't heard the gold disc, but as above, if you or anyone else is willing to provide something from it, I'd be happy to put together and host samples.

As far as CEDAR goes, in general I would say that *all else equal* I'd take a version without it (assuming NR, anyway; click/crackle reduction is fine), but like I've said before, all else is often not equal. If a version with CEDAR comes from a much better source, or has better mastering in general, I may certainly prefer it.

 

CEDAR is a bit like our favorite ClickRepair; it's a non real-time adaptive set of algorithms that attempt to find noise and take it out. It can be used on 11 or .1.

I have no doubt it did it's job originally (which was a long time ago, over 20 years since I first heard of it) but also at the time sounded as bad, musically, as the poor click/noise removal in most free programs. The noise went away but everything sounded 'processed' and dead.

I haven't found the new issues cheap yet locally, they do turn up. (they're only $8 anyway). I have to try them against the mastersound before I die (I did list it here, but then had another listen and decided it was too special to let go)

 

Would you mind making some of the gold CD available for comparison purposes? PM me if you can.

 

Thanks for posting those Luke. Striking difference.

Though I think the 1990 CD sounds thin, I'm with Jerry that the Remaster sounds a bit unnatural to my ears.

Haven't heard the Gold Disc, but I still like the old Columbia vinyl version. Sounds more like your first clip, but with a bit more midrange (and more noise).

Here's an interesting comparison between the '90 CD & Columbia vinyl........ Crossroads - 1990 CD vs. Columbia LP

First clip is the 1990 CD, and then a needledrop of the Columbia vinyl (standard red label) spliced at the same place as your second (remaster) clip.

Subtle difference, but warmer mids and smoother topend on the LP IMO. Noiser though, and you can hear the pops and clicks from my copy. Notice that the speeds are identical.

 

Yeah, that would be awesome! I might bust open that sealed one if it was deemed worthy by forum concensus....

 

Interesting, although I guess I don't find that significantly better than the box. A bit better perhaps, but not mind blowing.

Another member sent the first two tracks from the gold CD, so I'll try and make some clips up later.

 

Ok, some clips as promised:

Cross Road Blues (90 box)
Cross Road Blues (gold)
Cross Road Blues (98 remaster)

Terraplane Blues (90 box)
Terraplane Blues (gold)
Terraplane Blues (98 remaster)

I didn't do any level adjusting, but all of the samples do have Replay Gain calculated. If anyone's interested, here are the dynamic range calculations (left channel):

Cross Road Blues:

90
DR: 10.2
Peak: -7.74
RMS: -20.7

Gold
DR: 9.4
Peak: -1.37
RMS: -12.7

98
DR: 10.9
Peak: -1.74
RMS: -15.4

Terraplane Blues:

90
DR: 8.5
Peak: -7.06
RMS: -18.1

Gold
DR: 8.8
Peak: -1.43
RMS: -12.6

98
DR: 10.1
Peak: -1.01
RMS: -13.9

My take on the differences...I'd say the gold disc has a similar overall sound to the 90 box, but a bit more natural sounding and a bit less processed. Nicer to these ears. They seem to come from similar sources, although I noticed a few noises on the 90 box not present on the gold, which would seem to indicate different transfers at some point.

On to the 98 remaster...it seems to come from totally different transfers, possibly either from disc for the first time in a long time (with the previous discs coming from tape?), or using a totally different transfer setup (perhaps custom preamp EQ instead of RIAA or something?). In a general sense, there's more surface noise, and a somewhat extended frequency range. In the case of Cross Road Blues, I'd say the 98 disc blows away the gold disc...as mentioned above, Johnson sounds like he's in the room with you. For Terraplane Blues...I don't know. Besides the obvious distortion, I'm not quite getting the same "in the room" feeling, and the added surface noise doesn't help matters. I may prefer the gold disc in that case.

 

Something else interesting to note...looking at the tracks in spectral view, the 90 box has very little going on above 4.5kHz or so. The gold disc also cuts off around that spot, although it does have a bit more energy up to 6.5kHz or so. The 98 disc isn't vastly different for Terraplane Blues, but Cross Road Blues looks a lot different. A lot more variation in frequencies, suggesting a more full-range transfer (which certainly coincides with what I'm hearing). Even if you aren't enamored by the EQ, Cross Road Blues at least does seem to be a significant improvement overall.

Of course, these are only 2 tracks out of many. It would be interesting to do a similar analysis on all of the tracks.

 

Hmmm, my ears are shot with bad tinnitus, but for crossroad I kinda like the Gold better than the 98? I'm getting massive sub woofer rumble on the 98, and it sounds duller too. However, I can't hear high frequencies like you guys......

We need more tracks!!!! Such a definitive test / assessment has never been done on these important recordings. I'm sure this is just the group of people to do it. Where's Dave?

 

Of all the versions I have ehard of his albums over the years I am in consensus with most of the others on here the KOTDBS is th way to go. That remninds me to get nmy copy of Vol 2 back from my brother.